8-Apr-85 18:32:59-MST,383;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 8 Apr 85 18:32:43-MST Date: Mon, 8 Apr 85 20:02:11 EST From: Herb Lin Subject: question out of curiosity To: AMETHYST-USERS@MIT-MC cc: LIN@MIT-MC Message-ID: <[MIT-MC].447566.850408203250.LIN> anyone know how many source statement make up MINCE? approximiate size will do.. 10-Apr-85 23:04:28-MST,853;000000000000 Return-Path: <@MIT-MC:uucp@MIT-CCC> Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 10 Apr 85 23:04:12-MST Received: from MIT-CCC by MIT-MC via Chaosnet; 10 APR 85 21:41:07 EST Date: 10 Apr 1985 21:36:15-EST From: uucp at MIT-CCC From jmturn@LMI-CAPRICORN Wed Apr 10 17:06:34 1985 remote from LMI-CAPRICORN Received: from LMI-EARNEST by LMI-LAMBDA-3 with CHAOS-MAIL; Wed 10-Apr-1985 16:29:11-EST Date: Wednesday, 10 April 1985, 17:10-EST From: James M Turner Subject: question out of curiosity To: mitccc!LIN%MIT-MC at LMI-CAPRICORN CC: mitccc!AMETHYST-USERS%MIT-MC at LMI-CAPRICORN In-reply-to: <[MIT-MC].447566.850408203250.LIN> Message-ID: <[LMI-EARNEST].4/10/85 17:10:17.JMTurn> The sources for MINCE run 320 VMS blocks, which is about 160K bytes. No idea what that is in lines. James 22-Apr-85 08:05:44-MST,1382;000000000000 Return-Path: <@MIT-MC:Hess.Unicorn@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 22 Apr 85 08:05:28-MST Received: from MIT-MULTICS.ARPA by MIT-MC.ARPA; 22 APR 85 10:05:16 EST Posted-Date: 22 Apr 85 10:00 EST Date: Mon, 22 Apr 85 09:59 EST From: Hess@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA Subject: MINCE program size To: amethyst-users@MIT-MC.ARPA Message-ID: <850422145902.782947@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> [Here's a word count from the IBM PC version. (Note: Your mileage may vary.)] % cd /u3/M/IBMDIST % ls READ.ME bindings.c comm1.c comm2.c comm3.c config.gbl conv.com mc.asm mc.bat mc.obj mcc.bat mconfig mconfig.c mince mince.c mince.gbl mlib.asm mlib.lib support.c term.c util.c vbuff1.c vbuff2.c % wc *.c *.gbl 226 1085 7822 bindings.c 371 923 6840 comm1.c 325 774 6013 comm2.c 388 1021 8501 comm3.c 597 1802 12209 mconfig.c 356 1017 8371 mince.c 658 1715 13167 support.c 361 1264 7989 term.c 188 631 4413 util.c 466 1094 11020 vbuff1.c 509 1167 10542 vbuff2.c 38 148 1071 config.gbl 194 753 4998 mince.gbl 4677 13394 102956 total % [ lines words chars file name] [--BNH] 22-Apr-85 13:06:35-MST,2402;000000000000 Return-Path: <@MIT-MC:cybvax0!cci-bdc!motu-11!bnh@MIT-EDDIE> Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 22 Apr 85 13:06:12-MST Received: from MIT-EDDIE by MIT-MC via Chaosnet; 22 APR 85 15:05:05 EST Received: by mit-eddie.ARPA (4.12/4.8) id AA10384; Mon, 22 Apr 85 15:02:12 est From: cybvax0!cci-bdc!motu-11!bnh@mit-eddie Received: by cybvax0.UUCP (4.12/1.0) id AA01690; Mon, 22 Apr 85 15:02:51 est Received: by cci-bdc.UUCP (4.12/1.0) id AA00348; Mon, 22 Apr 85 13:13:10 est Date: Mon, 22 Apr 85 13:13:10 est Message-Id: <8504221813.AA00348@cci-bdc.UUCP> Reply-To: Hess@MIT-Multics.ARPA Apparently-To: cybvax0!mit-eddie!amethyst-users@mit-mc.ARPA Several people have asked about the possibility of Scribble being released into the public domain, and I have recently received more than one call from someone asking if they may duplicate their copy of Scribble for a friend. Scribble is NOT public property, regardless of the fact that it is not being sold by Mark of the Unicorn any longer. The code is still covered by copyright, the name is a registered trade mark, many of the trade secrets and techniques embodied in Scribble are still in use, and your single-CPU licenses are still in force and effect. So much for the fascist paragraph. If you want to get a text formatter like Scribble for a friend, by all means consider The FinalWord. It is a great improvement, and is well supported (in my admittedly biased opinion; I work for MotU). If you really want to have Scribble as a teaching tool or whatever, to hack on the partial source code, most ARPAnet- and university-attached people can probably purchase it from the CMU computer store, which has some sort of continuing redistribution agreement with MotU! There are probably other places to get one from (like perhaps Softeam in California?), but CMU is almost certainly the cheapest. Alas, they must do their own support, and I have been told that it's as difficult to get source code help from them as it is from MotU. In answer to the other question I get asked from time to time, MotU has no plans to discontinue selling MINCE in the face of competitors like Gosling Emacs and Epsilon. My personal belief is that the educational value of the product is important enough to keep it around for people to hack on for a long time to come. Brian (Hess@MIT-Multics) 23-Apr-85 14:02:57-MST,630;000000000000 Return-Path: <@MIT-MC:Hess.Unicorn@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 23 Apr 85 14:02:29-MST Received: from MIT-MULTICS.ARPA by MIT-MC.ARPA; 23 APR 85 15:54:40 EST Date: Mon, 22 Apr 85 20:47 EST From: Hess@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA Subject: Oops... To: amethyst-users@MIT-MC.ARPA Message-ID: <850423014711.113316@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> I forgot to tell you all that MINCE is up and running on the Atari ST series under Gem DOS. We have tested it on the 520 but not the smaller one (130?) yet. Usual price, but source won't be supplied until the compiler/library/ROMs settle. Brian 24-Apr-85 08:05:31-MST,1199;000000000000 Return-Path: <@MIT-MC:Hess.Unicorn@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 24 Apr 85 08:04:56-MST Received: from MIT-MULTICS.ARPA by MIT-MC.ARPA; 24 APR 85 09:44:51 EST Date: Wed, 24 Apr 85 08:38 EST From: Hess@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA Subject: Oops again! To: amethyst-users@MIT-MC.ARPA Message-ID: <850424133805.669185@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Someone at the CMU Comp.Ctr. reminded me: 1) they aren't really allowed to sell Scribble outside the CMU community 2) (more importantly) they don't distribute the partial source. I'm sorry to have mentioned it, because, if you don't want the product for educational purposes of hacking on C program source code (or writing your own very customized printer driver), then there's no reason to choose Scribble over The FinalWord formatter. Mea culpa. I just called Softeam and got an order-taker who was "not sure" about the availability of Scribble for either CP/M or IBM DOS, but offered to take the order and ship it if they had it. *sigh* Of course I don't want another one, so I said "no" so as not to pay for getting it. I hope they call me back and tell me whether or not it's available. Brian 30-Apr-85 02:46:09-MDT,1684;000000000000 Mail-From: WANCHO created at 30-Apr-85 02:45:55 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1985 02:45 MDT Message-ID: From: "Frank J. Wancho" To: AMETHYST-USERS@SIMTEL20.ARPA Subject: FW rebindings ~= EMACS/MINCE While SIMTEL20 was down this past weekend, I managed to get an 8" controller to half-work (read!) on my N*, and copied my FinalWord 1.15 update disks onto N* format. After wading through CONFIG and verifying that everything worked (sorta - IDSPS is another story), I proceeded to tackle the rebinding of the keys to more closely approximate EMACS/MINCE. Now, I didn't rebind *every* action, and I wish I could have rebound some to action combinations, but the result is in MICRO:FW-EMACS.DEF for those of you who want to have a place to start. There is a handy menu option in CONFIG that lets you read in previously created bindings, such as this one. The file is binary and contains only three sectors. Here are the gotchas: ^Z is bound to Pre Special and they ONLY way to unbind it is by the range of keys menu option, or DDT. I still haven't figured out what Pre Special is supposed to do. I bound ^G to abort, but ^Z seems to still be hardwired in some places, such as clearing the error message display before you can go on... In any event, if you pick up the file, be sure to write out your current bindings before reading this one in so you can fall back if you don't like the way I did it. I'll tell you one thing: it *sure* is nice to drop out of FW, do something else, then come back and pick up where you left off... just like certain mainframes... --Frank 30-Apr-85 21:12:52-MDT,1628;000000000000 Return-Path: <@MIT-MC:Hess.Unicorn@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Received: from MIT-MC by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 30 Apr 85 21:12:16-MDT Received: from MIT-MULTICS.ARPA by MIT-MC.ARPA; 30 APR 85 23:06:41 EDT Date: Tue, 30 Apr 85 23:03 EDT From: Hess@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA Subject: FW rebindings ~= EMACS/MINCE To: Wancho@SIMTEL20.ARPA cc: amethyst-users@MIT-MC.ARPA Message-ID: <850501030341.579675@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> Frank -- You cannot get around the ^Z to get out of error messages in the current version. Prefix special is designed for use only with DEC Rainbow and Televideo terminals, where the last character of an escape sequence cannot be used to make a choice in a command, because the last character is always the same. But the preceding characters are ESC-[-decimal number, and the decimal number is always different. Prefix Special parses that decimal number which immediately precedes the last character of the sequence and pretends that that's actually an ASCII character which followed a Prefix Two instead. In other words, Prefix Special is another way of getting Prefix Two, with some weird keyboards. As you noted, the key binding file is only 3 sectors: the first 128 bytes are control and standard ASCII characters, the second 128 bytes are Prefix One + the 128, and the third 128 bytes are Prefix Two + the 128. Prefix Special overlays the third group. (BTW, you must have called the customer support line sometime recently because they asked me the same question. Expect to be called back sometime soon...) I don't know how/why your ^Z got set to Prefix Special. Brian