1-Dec-82 04:07:05,540;000000000000 Date: 1 Dec 82 04:07:05 EST (Wed) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: DIGITAL RESEARCH -- CBBS To: INFO-CPM at BRL Cc: DBrown at Parc-Maxc Via: UCF-CS; 1 Dec 82 4:41-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 1 Dec 82 5:57-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 6:04-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 6:30-EST Yeah, but why do they have the 212A section of the R-V 3450P disabled? I called the number and it looked interesting, but at 300 baud and coast-to-coast phone rates it isn't ***THAT*** interesting! Ben 1-Dec-82 06:31:28,870;000000000000 Date: 1 Dec 82 8:31:28-EST (Wed) From: Bob Bloom (TECOM) To: "James Lewis Bean, Jr." cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Subject: Re: Wordstar's character width table. Via: Mit-Mc; 1 Dec 82 11:15-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 11:37-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 11:58-EST The proportional space table of WordStar 3.0 starts at 07d8h. It is toggled in with ^P (this is undocumented in the operators manual). Table starts with and continues in ASCII order to 0837h. From the manual: "bits 4-6 are moderate adjustments to apply to non-proportional typewheels; value is relative width in 60ths, space=5. bits 0-2 are for true proportional spacing typewheel (theme p.s. 10, etc), space=3. bits 0 and 4 are unassigned." I'm not quite sure what that all means. Values in those locations run from 32 (.,') to 67 (W). 1-Dec-82 06:31:28,870;000000000000 Date: 1 Dec 82 8:31:28-EST (Wed) From: Bob Bloom (TECOM) To: "James Lewis Bean, Jr." cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Subject: Re: Wordstar's character width table. Via: Mit-Mc; 1 Dec 82 10:51-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 11:19-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 11:55-EST The proportional space table of WordStar 3.0 starts at 07d8h. It is toggled in with ^P (this is undocumented in the operators manual). Table starts with and continues in ASCII order to 0837h. From the manual: "bits 4-6 are moderate adjustments to apply to non-proportional typewheels; value is relative width in 60ths, space=5. bits 0-2 are for true proportional spacing typewheel (theme p.s. 10, etc), space=3. bits 0 and 4 are unassigned." I'm not quite sure what that all means. Values in those locations run from 32 (.,') to 67 (W). 1-Dec-82 09:44:39,458;000000000000 Date: 1-Dec-82 08:44:39-PST (Wed) From: helge at Ucb-C70 (Helge Skrivervik) Message-Id: <8211011644.17924@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A17919; 1-Dec-82 08:44:44-PST (Wed) To: info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 1 Dec 82 11:47-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 11:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 12:24-EST I would appreciate to receive more info on MARC. Is it commercially available yet?? Thanks, -helge 1-Dec-82 15:36:00,1260;000000000000 Date: 1 Dec 1982 1736-EST From: Tony Subject: CP/M 3.0 To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Rutgers; 1 Dec 82 18:34-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 18:51-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 19:41-EST I tend to agree with Lauren's analysis of CP/M Plus. I do think that it is a big improvement over 2.2, but I also feel that it is not enough of an improvement. Hopefully MARC will present us with a better micro-os. CP/M has been out of date for many years now, and it is time for some fresh blood. Micro-Unix of any flavor is probably great for a hacker, but for the real business world, it would be a disaster. For those of you who Hate DRI. Remember that DRI is not out to cater to hackers, and that the money for DRI lies in large OEM-business types. If you have problems with software that screws up page zero, that's your problem. You can't expect a company to support someone else's hack, especially when it is performing functions which are specifically not meant to be done. What do you think DEC or IBM would say if you poked one of their monitors (EXECs) and then blamed them for bad software? I come not to praise DRI or CP/M but to point out that it is obsolete, and was never intended as a hacker's nirvana. Tony ------- 1-Dec-82 16:50:55,1010;000000000000 Date: 1 Dec 1982 15:31:46-PST From: decvax!harpo!eagle!wheps!alc at Ucb-C70 Date: Wed Dec 1 15:50:55 1982 Message-Id: <8211012333.26838@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A26838; 1-Dec-82 15:33:09-PST (Wed) Apparently-To: info-cpm Via: Mit-Ai; 1 Dec 82 18:48-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 19:06-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 19:43-EST Maybe Marc is what I need. I sent mail to Lauren from a different machine and have little hope of it getting there. I take this chance now while I am on the machine that subscribes to netnews. I would really appreciate a reply at whuxg!beal which is where I really am and can be reached through harpo and others. A quick summary of my original problem is that I have cpm 1.4 on a controller which has been orphaned by the mfr and cannot get DR or anybody to respond with enough info for me to really believe that I could either bring up 2.2 or make any other useful changes. John Beal Bell Labs Whippany NJ 1-Dec-82 18:18:33,2681;000000000000 Date: Wed Dec 1 1982 18:18:33 PST From: Lauren Weinstein Subject: MARC To: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc CC: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Lbl-Unix; 2 Dec 82 20:08-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 20:15-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 20:20-EST Greetings. Yeah, your description is pretty accurate. I like to consider MARC to be sort of a V6/V7/4.1bsd hybrid -- over time I've tried to add those features from V7 and Berkeley that I particularly liked (and that made sense on a very small computer!) Actually, the filesystem is very closely patterned after V6, primarily because the V7 layout would probably have taken up too much overhead space on people's small disks. The MARC block size in 256 bytes, again in keeping with the smaller scale of the system. Many of the "obvious" Unix utility commands are around -- in some cases (e.g. "cp", "mv") these are patterned after V7 rather than V6. The system calls include "tell" (which of course is "late" V6). Login startup files, private bin directories, and similar V6/V7 features are supported. We now also have a "make" command (very similiar to V7 Unix "make" but not as complex). Very useful, however. I have special versions of "sq", and "usq" for MARC, but have yet to receive final permission to distribute them with the basic system. The C compiler is indeed a special version of BDS C, with long and float subroutine packages. The library support for MARC from the compiler is extremely extensive. The MARC stdio library is virtually identical to the K&R Unix standard (makes life *alot* easier!). The cp/m emulator runs, and tries as hard as it can, but given the variety of insane cp/m programs (some of which open 20 or 30 files w/o bothering to close other files, etc.) it will never be able to handle EVERY program. However, it seems to do fine with most editors (like Wordmaster) and most of the language translators I've tested (MAC, M80, L80, TLC LISP, etc.). A MARC version of MINCE is also available -- I couldn't get along without it. Indeed, 'tis true that "vortex" is a Z80 running MARC. In fact, I'm typing this message directly into the MINCE that interfaces with my mail generation software. I *may* include my basic mail handling software in the MARC package, or it may be included in a utility package later on. I have *not* made any decisions about how I will handle release of my MARC/BDS C UUCP code, except that I know it will not be part of the basic MARC package. (Whaddaya want for $250?) MARC is not available yet. It has taken a LONG time to get this far, and hopefully there won't be too much more of a wait. --Lauren-- 1-Dec-82 18:24:00,328;000000000000 Date: 1 Dec 1982 1724-PST Sender: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie Subject: LARKY From: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie To: info-cpm at BRL Message-ID: <[USC-ISIE] 1-Dec-82 17:24:00.SCHNUR> Via: Usc-Isie; 1 Dec 82 20:26-EST Via: Brl; 1 Dec 82 20:37-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 1 Dec 82 20:50-EST Is there a LARKY on the net. Please write me at isia. 2-Dec-82 00:44:00,1627;000000000000 Date: 2 December 1982 02:44-EST From: Paul L Kelley Subject: MODEM794 To: INFO-CPM at BRL cc: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc, PLOUFF at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 3:10-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 3:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 3:32-EST The following files are a new version of the MODEM7 package. MC CPM AR61 MODEM7 0 MCNFG 794ASM 3 12/01/82 02:28:05 0 MCOSB 794ASM 2 12/01/82 02:35:15 0 MNUM 794ASM 1 12/01/82 03:17:24 0 MODEM 768DOC 4 11/11/82 23:10:55 <-- Unchanged 0 MODEM 792LIB 4 11/19/82 23:00:55 <-- Unchanged 0 MODEM 794ASM 17 12/02/82 00:54:47 0 MODEM 794COM 4 12/02/82 01:24:19 0 MODEM 794HEX 9 12/02/82 01:29:02 0 MODEM 794HIS 4 12/02/82 00:50:48 0 MODEM 794INF 1 12/01/82 02:32:42 0 MODEM 794SET 1 12/01/82 02:31:04 ;11/30/82 Made the following changes: ; ; 1. Put SECTNOE in proper location, ; 2. Added optional XOFF/XON testing to terminal mode ; file output routines, ; 3. Added MSPEED setting to PMMI baud rate routines, ; 4. Fixed quiet mode, ; 5. Expanded command line again to help novices, ; 6. Changed to XMODEM routine for receiver to ; request CRC mode from sender and added routine ; to switch to checksum mode after 6 timeouts. ; P . L. Kelley and R. L. Plouffe ;11/26/82 Replaced "CDD" command with "LOG", and fixed associated code. ; Replaced "CUR" with "?" for easier working of a much used ; function. Shortened command line, same info in less space. ; Normal changes to menus done to reflect new commands. ; Mark J. Pulver 2-Dec-82 01:16:00,347;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 0016-PST From: Bill White Subject: TurboDOS and MuSys To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 3:18-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 3:43-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 3:45-EST Does anyone have any first hand experience with this CP/M "compatible" OS (TurboDOS) or the company selling it (MuSys)? ------- 2-Dec-82 03:55:00,1335;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 0555-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: CP/M 3.0 To: Li at Rutgers cc: info-cpm at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 2-Dec-82 0048-EST Via: Mit-Ml; 2 Dec 82 6:00-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 6:11-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 6:21-EST cp/m isn't all that bad, and neither is DR, either. i've seen marc - it's good (looks PRETTY much like unix(tm), but nuttin beats a VAX (are we not men?) running Berkeley 4.1), however, the cost of the system required to run it (it would seem that with all the disk acessing you gotta do, you'd almost HAVE to have a big winnie and maybe a BIG in-memory buffer (>1mbyte). cp/m is good for just what it was intended for - a program loader. however, it *is* simple enough that you can do neat things. DR isn't all that bad, either. Their documentation may look like it was `crypted, translated in swahili, crypted again, then typed up by a blind monkey', but it *still* is readable and understandable (hell, IBM doc isn't too bad either, once you get used to it). They will also talk to people on their tech hotline who have legitimate problems (or seem to). BTW, the last four digits of their phone number spells MAMA(!). oh well. i don't hate dr, and they are useful (pl/i-80 is pretty damn good). -andy ------- 2-Dec-82 08:18:00,519;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 1018-EST (Thursday) From: dudley at Nadc Subject: How to reach John Beal To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 10:32-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 10:40-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 11:06-EST I would like to reply to John Beals letter of 1-Dec but don't understand address references with shrieks (!) in them. What does 'whuxg!beal' mean, or for that matter, 'decvax!harpo!eagle!wheps!alc@ucb-c70' ? thanks.. dudley ------- 2-Dec-82 12:07:00,1311;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 at 1107-PST To: info-cpm at BRL Cc: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc Subject: ISIS tools From: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc Via: Sri-Tsca; 2 Dec 82 11:23-PST Via: Sri-Tsc; 2 Dec 82 14:22-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 14:27-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 14:36-EST I'd like to thank everyone responding to my last message about RT-11 tools. At least a dozen people pointed me at RT11.C, the utility for copying files between RT-11 and CP/M floppies. After a long delay, one person sent me an implementation of MODEM2 for RT-11, written in C. Now I need the same thing for ISIS. Does anyone have either of the following: (a) implementation of MODEM2 that executes under ISIS. Presumably this has to be made available on an ISIS SSSD diskette, unless there is a simple procedure for bootloading code over a serial line. (b) a utility like RT11.C that runs under CP/M and copies files between ISIS and CP/M diskettes. I seem to recall that such a thing exists in the CP/MUG library. The problem with the latter is that the files we want to move exist on an Intel SSDD floppy. I rather doubt that it will be easy to get our double density controllers to read those disks under CP/M. Reply to me, please, and I'll summarize it there is interest. Dave Fylstra 2-Dec-82 13:10:10,1992;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 13:10:10 CST (Thursday) From: Mike Meyer Subject: More on the MPM2 problem To: info-cpm at Okc-Unix Cc: mwm at Okc-Unix Via: Okc-Unix; 2 Dec 82 14:29-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 14:47-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 14:53-EST The system walked on my mailbox, after I had seen that somebody had replied to me on the MPM page zero problem, but before I read it. Since I couldn't find the reply in the archives, I assume that it was addressed to me, and not the list. Could whoever it was from please reply again. While going through the archives, I noticed that somebody considered twisting page zero and then complaining when it didn't workand DRI doesn't want to help to be crass. I have a couple of comments: 1) It wouldn't be so bad if they warned you about such things. 2) They do fix page zero when it is page zero on a bank. I.e., the code runs (correctly) in the first partition on each bank. 3) This was CP/M software that somebody else wrote, and I was asked to move to MPM (don't ever let DRI fool you into thinking that those two are really compatable). DRI uses this trick for CP/M software themselves. 4) I talked to the OEM who put wrote the BIOS. After looking at it (even thought it wasn't their problem), the decided that the BIOS never got control, and therefore the couldn't fix it. They told me not to other talking to DRI, as they had never been able to get a response from them. On software compatability between MPM and CP/M. It does exist. As long as you don't touch ANYTHING in the OS part of memory, don't do disk resets, and don't do BIOS calls. I was (unfortunately) stuck with moving a LOT of business software from MP/M to CP/M. Like accounting stuff written in Microsoft BASIC. It broke at least two of the three rules for CP/M software. Most screen oriented things will also lose. I expect CP/M Plus to be more compatable with MP/M than with CP/M 2.2. *sigh* Subject: command file drive To: info-pc at Usc-Isib cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Usc-Isib; 2 Dec 82 19:38-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 19:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 19:47-EST Is it possible to determine from either a system call or the internals of CP/M the drive from which a command file is read. That is, if "A>C:EDIT B:SOMEFILE" is typed, how can EDIT determine that is was loaded from drive C ??? Many thanks, Bill (RIZZI@ISIB) ------- 2-Dec-82 18:47:00,670;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 at 1747-PST To: info-cpm at BRL Cc: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc Subject: yet another MODEM2... From: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc Via: Sri-Tsca; 2 Dec 82 17:54-PST Via: Sri-Tsc; 2 Dec 82 22:16-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 22:29-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 23:05-EST Today I received a request from one of our users for an implementation of MODEM2 for yet another unique combination of languages and operating systems. This time we need MODEM2 for... an 11/40 running RSX-11 an LSI-11 running RT-11. The preferred languages are (shudder) FORTRAN and MACRO-11. Replies to me, and I'll summarize if there is any interest. Dave Fylstra 2-Dec-82 19:54:00,1563;000000000000 Date: 2 Dec 1982 19:54 EST From: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: How to reach John Beal In-reply-to: dudley's message of 2 Dec 1982 1018-EST (Thursday) To: dudley at Nadc cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 2 Dec 82 20:10-EST Via: Brl; 2 Dec 82 20:18-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 2 Dec 82 20:21-EST ! is directly analogous to @, except it is grouped from the other end. It is a UUCP address. Unix to Unix CoPy is a utility under unix whereby machines call each other up to transfer files, send mail, or execute processes on a remote machine. normal phone lines and dial-up lines are normally used with 300 or 1200 baud modems. It is a good system because anybody can call anybody, sites can be added or removed arbirarily and easily. It is a bad system because you have to know the path through the network. I don't know who calls whuxg . It is a Bell labs machine in Whippany. I sent a letter to John at wheps!alc (alc is someone's login) asking him to help. A shorter way to get to sheps from decvax is through zeppo, so decvax!zeppo!wheps!alc@berkeley should work. You see, berkeley on the arpanet and ucbvax on uucp are the same machine... actually, they are a network, but the mailers at berkeley understand... It will go from you over the arpanet to berkeley. berkeley is also ucbvax, and ucbvax talks to decvax. decvax will send it to zeppo, who will send it to wheps, who will say OH! I know alc ! and put it in his (or her) mailbox. have fun... --Ray clark.wbst@parc-maxc (don't ask about dots... ) 2-Dec-82 23:12:00,965;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 01:12-EST From: Herb Lin Subject: MP/M questions To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 1:13-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 1:16-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 1:18-EST 1. assume i want to be running MP/M with a z-80B and a hard disk with two users doing MINCE-type word processing and maybe a printer job in the background. any comments on system degradation? will response time be acceptable? or should i punt and go to a 16 bit multi-user system. 2. assume I want to run with one terminal, but demand foreground/background capability. can i do this on an 8-bit multi-user system? will MP/M let me do this? in principle, i want a Concurrent CP/M 80 (by analogy to the 8086 version DR puts out), but i don;t know of such a beast. failing this, it seems that what i should able to do it just start up as one user a foreground job, and then as another user a background; possible? help, please. thanks. 3-Dec-82 00:20:00,678;000000000000 Date: Friday, 3 December 1982 02:20-EST Sender: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL From: RG.JMTURN at Mit-Mc To: info-cpm at BRL Subject: Moving disks from 8 to 5.25 Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 2:23-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 2:36-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 3:19-EST Is anyone out there offering a service to convert 8 inch disks to 5.25 inch? I need to take some 8 inch CCS formatted double density, and convert it either to Osborne, IBM PC, Xerox, or Morrow format 5.25 inch. Any ideas (I though of taking an 8 inch system, dumping the COM files to HEX, and running LMODEM at 9600 baud directly wired to a 5.25 inch system, but direct copying would be better.) James 3-Dec-82 03:18:00,397;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 05:18-EST From: Roger L Long Subject: CP/M 3.0 To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 5:18-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 5:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 5:31-EST There is an ad from JADE in the December '82 issue of BYTE for CP/M 3.0 configured for the SBC-200 and Versafloppy II. Price is $200 for entire thing, or $30 for manuals only. -roger 3-Dec-82 09:44:00,1019;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 11:44-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: Moving files from 8 to 5.25 disks To: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL cc: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 12:35-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 12:39-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 13:04-EST I have two programs for doing that. If you have an S-100 system and if you can plug BOTH disk controllers into the buss without address or port conflicts, you can bring up TWO CP/Ms in memory at the same time (one smaller memory size than the other so they don't overlap). My programs allow transfer of multiple files between the two CP/Ms. The programs are TOHARD.ASM and FROMHARD.ASM (note you don't need a hard disk to run them, they work with ANY disk systems that can run CP/M). These programs are available on the net from MIT-MC as: AR24:CPM;FMHARD ASM AR24:CPM;TOHARD ASM Both programs are meant to run on the SMALLER memory-sized CP/M. They will accept all normal ambiguous filename references such as *.*, *.ASM, etc. 3-Dec-82 09:53:00,580;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 11:53-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: ISIS tools To: fylstra.tsca at Sri-Tsc cc: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 11:54-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 12:10-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 12:23-EST I have ICOPY1.ASM which is an ISIS II to CP/M copy program that runs on CP/M. It's an improved version of the CPMUG program. The original would not transfer files larger than 16k. If you're in a hurry for it you can call my RCPM system (313)-759-6569 (callback). It's on the hard disk A: drive as ICOPY1.AQM (a squeezed file). 3-Dec-82 10:57:31,710;000000000000 Date: 3 Dec 82 10:57:31 EST (Fri) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: How to reach John Beal To: dudley at Nadc, info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: UCF-CS; 4 Dec 82 19:35-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 5 Dec 82 17:47-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 18:17-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 18:31-EST What you have there is a Usenet (uucp) address. Your response should go to the Berkeley mail gateway (Ucb-C70). The uucp path is used instead of a user name. Thus 'decvax!harpo!eagle!wheps!alc @ Ucb-C70' is a valid address. BTW, the '!' if you haven't already figured it out is used to separate path components; uucp is primitive and the user must specify the appropriate path himself. 3-Dec-82 16:16:00,613;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 18:16-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: MENU files on MC To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 18:18-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 18:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 18:31-EST I have uploaded the following files to MC: AR23:CPM;MENU COM MENU DOC These files are supposed to allow a menu structure under CP/M on the application level. I must admit that I have not had a chance to try the program out myself. I understand that the author is already in the process of adding additional capabilities and refinements, and I will upload as received. 3-Dec-82 16:29:00,433;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 18:29-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: MARC To: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 18:30-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 18:39-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 18:44-EST The one question that comes to mind is: with all these features, and what not, (is it written in C or ASM, if asm 8080 or Z-80?) how big is it? It must be huge! -Eliot at Mit-DM 3-Dec-82 17:24:54,2121;000000000000 Date: Fri Dec 3 1982 17:24:54 PST From: Lauren Weinstein Subject: MARC To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Ml CC: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Lbl-Unix; 5 Dec 82 22:56-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 23:17-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 23:26-EST I'm glad you've seen MARC, but please don't spread misinformation around! MARC does NOT require "BIG in-memory buffers". All existing MARC implementations run within 64K bytes. I have run MARC successfully in as little as 48K, but admittedly that was a bit cramped for getting anything useful done. You DON'T need a "big winnie" either. Hard disks are nice on almost any system, but MARC will run fine even on single-density 8 inch floppies. Since there are so many utilities (resulting in a pretty large /bin) it's nice to have double-density floppies so that you can fit all the utilities onto your root disk, but even running single-density it is fairly trivial to simply put most of your "infrequently used" programs on a different filesystem (floppy). I've never been able to figure out exactly how to benchmark MARC, but on my single-density system, the access times generally seem to be at least as good as I get for CP/M, overall. Certain tasks might take a bit longer and some a bit shorter, but overall the feeling is that they are very similar. Note that MARC does NOT handle disk accessing (internally) exactly the same way as UNIX, and there have been conscious design decisions made with an eye toward good performance on smaller disks (for example, file block buffering is handled differently, and the shell search path is essentially reversed from that of standard Unix). Most of the test sites ran double-density systems with 58-64K bytes, and they generally reported that performance was very good, even with their simple floppy systems. Obviously the quality of your BIOS, and similiar factors, will impact overall performance, and a hierarchical filesystem implies more time spent performing certain tasks (and less time performing others), but overall the reaction has been very good. --Lauren-- 3-Dec-82 18:33:00,348;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 20:33-EST From: James E Reece To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 21:22-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 21:32-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 21:47-EST I have a rather urgent need to find out about the quality, reliability, etc. of the Godbout computer. Can any of you tell me any stories (good or bad)? 3-Dec-82 20:58:00,861;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 22:58-EST From: Michael C Adler Subject: XSUB modification To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Ml; 3 Dec 82 22:57-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 23:05-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 3 Dec 82 23:20-EST XSUB (at least the version I have) appends a CR/LF combination to the end of input lines. The BDOS, I assume, expects only CR or LF (preferably CR) at the end of an input line. As a result, .SUB files that use XSUB tend to have extra line feeds in them. This can be eliminated with the following patch: Change each of bytes 02D7 through 02D9 of XSUB to 0. This wipes out a MVI A,0A INX H set of instructions and prevents the LF from being put in the buffer. I am not sure that the LF is unnecessary for some obscure reason. If it is, I will be sure to find out in a situation where speed is most critical. -Michael 3-Dec-82 21:37:00,670;000000000000 Date: 3 December 1982 23:37-EST From: Frank J Wancho Subject: MP/M questions To: LIN at Mit-Mc cc: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 3 Dec 82 23:39-EST Via: Brl; 3 Dec 82 23:47-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 0:05-EST Concurrent CP/M-80 is entirely possible and feasible, although I can't say that anyone has actually done it (yet). The principal is relatively simple: take the example of a bank-switched, interrupt-driven, multi-user system, add a small exec in the common area, and turn it around so that you can select your current home bank while the interrupts allow the processor to service any activities of the other banks... --Frank 3-Dec-82 21:59:00,728;000000000000 Date: 3 Dec 1982 2359-EST From: John S Labovitz Subject: Aztec C To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 4 Dec 82 0:56-EST Via: Brl; 4 Dec 82 1:05-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 1:44-EST Has anyone had any experience with the Aztec C compiler for either CP/M or HDOS? If so, what's your opinion on: * Speed. We need to use it for communication programs, so we need it FAST! How does it compare with BDS C? * M80/L80 compatibility. We have some assembly code that's written for M80/L80. * Library. Is the library full C (such as the file I/O). * Compiling time. Is it as slow as Whitesmiths? Thanx very much. John Labovitz (RMS.G.HNIJ@MIT-OZ) ------- 4-Dec-82 01:01:00,947;000000000000 Date: 4 December 1982 03:01-EST From: Dan Blumenfeld Subject: Z80 to 8086 translator To: HPLABS!HP-PCD!CHARLIE at Mit-Ml cc: Info-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Ml; 4 Dec 82 3:00-EST Via: Brl; 4 Dec 82 3:15-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 3:26-EST A translator which does this is available from Sorcim. Its called TRANS86, and it runs under CPM-80. It takes 8080 or Z80 code and translates it to ACT86 code. ACT86 code is Sorcim's answer to Intel's mnemonics for the 8086. If you have a "normal" 8086 assembler, it will barf on ACT86 code, but an ACT86 assembler is also available, which produces .HEX files. Of course, the translator sometimes has problems converting 8080/Z80 code to 8086, but fortunately it flags everything that could cause problems. If you get disgusted with the ACT86 mnemonics, you could probably write a postprocessor in PASCAL, etc. to covert them to Intel's standard. Hope this helps... Dan 4-Dec-82 04:43:00,671;000000000000 Date: 4 December 1982 06:43-EST From: Eric O Stork To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 4 Dec 82 6:58-EST Via: Brl; 4 Dec 82 7:09-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 7:24-EST Subject: Portable Micros. My son is off to college soon. He's been doing his work on a micro for over two years, and I can't expect him to go back to a typewriter, so am planning to get him a portale micro (like OSBORNE, KAYPRO, what have you). Question: What experience have people had with various units? Any advice of what to get (not to get)? Any reason to wait a few months because something much better is just around the corner? Comments will be much appreciated. 4-Dec-82 12:39:00,492;000000000000 Date: 4 December 1982 14:39-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: MODEM7xx for Osborne To: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 4 Dec 82 14:55-EST Via: Brl; 4 Dec 82 15:04-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 4 Dec 82 16:01-EST Osborne computer users should note that the latest version of MODEM7 (MODEM794) now has a configuration file for your system. This means it will no longer be necessary to have separate versions of MODEM7xx for the Osborne. See AR61:CPM;MCOSB 794ASM on MIT-MC. 5-Dec-82 02:44:07,1256;000000000000 Date: 5-Dec-82 01:44:07-PST (Sun) From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz) Subject: Aztec C Message-Id: <8211050944.6779@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82]) id A06778; 5-Dec-82 01:44:09-PST (Sun) Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A02504; 5-Dec-82 01:42:24-PST (Sun) To: RMS.G.HNIJ.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Ucb-C70; 5 Dec 82 4:43-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 4:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 5:27-EST Aztec C is a good overall C Compiler, though BDS C is better for those who like all sorts of neat goodies like a symbolic debugger and a package that is easier to use. Aztec is slightly faster in execution to BDS C and can work with M80/L80 stuff. It compiles MUCH faster than Whitesmiths (A monkey could hand-compile code faster than whitesmiths.) For further time information on both compilation and interpretation, see my articles in November/December 1981 and Jan/Feb 1982 for reviews of BDS C and Whitesmiths, and Nov/Dec 1982 for reviews of Aztec and C/80. Overall, I prefer to program in BDS, but if I needed full C usage including register variables, I would use Aztec without a second thought. David 5-Dec-82 02:45:04,614;000000000000 Date: 5-Dec-82 01:45:04-PST (Sun) From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz) Subject: Aztec C Message-Id: <8211050945.6796@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82]) id A06791; 5-Dec-82 01:45:07-PST (Sun) Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A02519; 5-Dec-82 01:43:22-PST (Sun) To: RMS.G.HNIJ.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Ucb-C70; 5 Dec 82 4:45-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 4:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 5:28-EST Oops..those articles are in Microsystems Magazine. Sorry for the omission. David 5-Dec-82 02:53:38,1873;000000000000 Date: 5-Dec-82 01:53:38-PST (Sun) From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz) Subject: portable machines Message-Id: <8211050953.6818@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82]) id A06817; 5-Dec-82 01:53:40-PST (Sun) Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A02652; 5-Dec-82 01:51:55-PST (Sun) To: STORK at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Ucb-C70; 5 Dec 82 4:54-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 4:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 5:29-EST New machines were just released at Comdex this past week. Unfortunately, my literature hasn't shown up yet, so I will work from memory. There were a number of new CP/M portables announced, most notably the Jonos Computer out of Anahiem, CA using the new Sony floppies. Cute little toy, uses STD bus, so it can be diddled. On the 8088 side, there were a few released, most notably the DOT from Computer Devices of Burlington MA, the Chameleon from someplace, and the Compac, also from someplace, but my guess as the winner. The DOT: an 8088 machine using Sony 3" floppies. Not bad. The Chameleon. "IBM PC Compatible" selling for $1995 and using an 8088 and Z80..best price machine, but company seemed underfunded. Wouldn't take a chance. The Compac - funded by Sevin Rosen and designed to be hardware and software compatible with the IBM PC. This means that you can go out and buy the thing and with add on cards use any processor from a Z80 - 8088 - 8086 - 286 - 68000 and OS's from CP/M - PC-DOS - CP/M-86 - Concurrent CP/M - XENIX. Since its heavily funded and a rather nice machine and portable it would be the best bet. Look to magazine adds or ask you local computer stores. It should be getting lots of press. I would probably check it out over the Kaypro. Don't buy an Osborne. David 5-Dec-82 15:22:00,2334;000000000000 Date: Sun Dec 5 16:22 CST 1982 From: decvax!ihuxf!larry at Ucb-C70 Subject: Re: Aztec C compiler Message-Id: <8211060625.22038@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A22036; 5-Dec-82 22:25:03-PST (Sun) Postdate: Sun Dec 5 16:22:13 1982 To: decvax!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 4:11-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 4:19-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 4:21-EST In reply to the quesion about Aztec C compiler --how good is it? Here is my impression: I think it is a pretty nice compiler. MUCH faster than Whitesmith's (both compilation time and execution time). The benchmarks I've seen it run plus/minus 10% of BDS (that is usually on of the fastest). A BIG speed up can happen when you code using the "register" type variables. I used to use BDS, but have been won over to Aztec for these reasons: 1) floats/doubles/longs its nice to have a FULL implimentation of data types 2) statics & globals its nice to have the FULL storage types (note that BDS does have global variables, but compiler is 'picky' about the order placement in multiple files) 3) I LIKE to be able to see the .asm output. BDS jumps right from .c -> linkable file (essentially object code). One of the things that is interesting (to me) is what code gets generated for a particular set of statements. Guess I'm just nosey, but that's one of the things I bought my micro for!! 4) the library is just as K & R describe it. Whitesmith (for some reason) provide a standard lib, but NAME things differently. BDS has the right names, but becuause it lacks 1 and 2, can't do all the functions exactly right --resulting in "funny" file i/o and some other things. ----- As far as compatibility with M80/L80 -- it works just fine with them. (that feature is one of their selling points) There are some drawbacks with Aztec -- the way the library and linker work. The linker will load more than it really needs, so the object file tends to be bigger than needed. (note that L80 has the same problem) I have been converting the .asm & .c files in the library to use the TDL asm and linker. This pair do a better job of linking the library. This can result in a BIG savings in small programs. Larry Marek Bell Labs, Naperville 5-Dec-82 18:27:00,352;000000000000 Date: 5 Dec 1982 2027-EST From: Sean D True Subject: Device independent graphics? To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 5 Dec 82 20:29-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 21:15-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 21:23-EST Is anyone out there working on device independent graphics for CPM? Particularly in C?? sean (sean@mit-oz) ------- 5-Dec-82 19:17:00,568;000000000000 Date: 5 December 1982 21:17-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: CP/M for TRS80 Mod I/Lobo To: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 5 Dec 82 22:14-EST Via: Brl; 5 Dec 82 22:21-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 5 Dec 82 22:51-EST I have received an inquiry about whether CP/M is available for the TRS80 Model I equipped with a Lobo Drives expansion interface. The owner has LDOS, two MPI-B51 40-track single-density drives, and an MX-80 printer. He says that the Omicron "mapper" will not work with this setup. Does anyone know of an alternative? --Keith 5-Dec-82 22:19:00,1204;000000000000 Date: 6 December 1982 00:19-EST From: Dan Blumenfeld Subject: Device Independent Graphics for CP/M To: Sean.MIT-OZ at BRL cc: Info-CPM at BRL, Info-Graphics at Utexas-20 Via: Mit-Ml; 6 Dec 82 0:20-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 0:26-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 0:36-EST After seeing an ad from Digital Research entitled "CP/M Graphics" (InfoWorld, Nov 29, p 93), I gave them a call. While it's not yet available, DR will soon release what they call GSX, a device independent graphics package which will run under CP/M. This will include GSS-Kernel, which is their implementation of the Graphics Kernel System (GKS). Another package will be GSS-PLOT, which lets you generate bar graphs, histograms, pie charts, etc. (probably similar to ISSCO's TellaGraf). GSX will be available for both CP/M-80 and CP/M-86 hosts, and can be linked with CBASIC, Pascal MT+, PL/I, and FORTRAN (which means these libaraies are most likely supplied as .REL files). From what I was told on the phone, the user supplies simple drivers which tell GSX how to plot points, move the "pen", etc. for each device to be supported. Unfortunately, they didn't have pricing info available. Dan 5-Dec-82 22:46:00,373;000000000000 Date: 6 DEC 1982 0046-EST From: JDOS at Mit-Ai (John Paul McNamee) Subject: TRS80 Model II MODEM7 To: INFO-CPM at BRL CC: INFO-TRS80 at Mit-Ai Via: Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 0:46-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 1:05-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 1:09-EST I have been asked for the MODEM7 parameters to make it run on a TRS-80 Model II. Does anybody have them? John McNamee 6-Dec-82 00:33:00,654;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 0233-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: Device independent graphics? To: SEAN.MIT-OZ at BRL cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc In-Reply-To: Your message of 5-Dec-82 2237-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 6 Dec 82 3:16-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 3:37-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 3:56-EST there's compco's (in wisconsin, i think - it's been a while) GSP (graphics subroutine package). it's fortran-80 compatible, and it's a good package. if it doesn't already support your device, you can write a new driver (it has LOTS of devices built in - i should know, we provided them with about 3 drivers...) -andy ------- 6-Dec-82 01:18:40,2003;000000000000 Date: Mon Dec 6 1982 01:18:40 PST From: Lauren Weinstein Subject: MARC's size To: ELIOT at Mit-Mc CC: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Lbl-Unix; 6 Dec 82 6:49-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 6:53-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 7:00-EST Lessee. Currently, the non-overlayable portion of the kernel is around 14.5K bytes. On my system here, which has a monstrous hard disk/floppy disk BIOS, I usually have around 46K free for user programs. I have found this to be large enough for all my work, including compiling and running my UUCP and mailsystem code. Oh yes, I lose another couple of K in my system due to reserved space for the MARC BYE program which supports dialup access to UUCP and the like, so 48K is probably a more realistic figure for my big BIOS when *not* running in dialup mode. The CP/M emulator is around 2K bytes, but it only loads when you need it (when you try to run a program which has the CP/M "tag" bit set [the same bit used as the "sticky" bit under UNIX]). Note that user programs under MARC tend to be smaller than under CP/M, since much terminal and disk I/O code that is duplicated in almost every CP/M program is unnecessary under MARC, since the MARC kernel provides much more advanced facilities in those areas than does CP/M. The kernel is written in 8080 assembler. Investigation showed a trivial size decrease for conversion to Z80 code, and would have locked out the people with fast 8085's, so conversion was not attempted. Utility programs are a mixed bag. Some of them are in assembler and some (particularly the more recent/complex ones) are in BDS C. I can only say that during all the work I do here at vortex, I haven't found the amount of free memory to be a problem. I'm looking into the issues of putting the kernel in a separate bank of memory, but this will clearly not happen until after the basic MARC is out and I have some reason to believe it will be accepted in the marketplace. --Lauren-- 6-Dec-82 06:48:00,882;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 82 08:48-EST (Mon) From: Robert Heller To: info-vax at Sri-Csl, info-cpm at Mit-Mc cc: heller.umass-coins at Udel-Relay Subject: CP/M disk i/o info needed Via: UMASS-COINS; 7 Dec 82 3:32-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 4:16-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:39-EST I need to know how to read a CP/M single-density/single-sided 8" floppy on a RX02 on a VAX-11/780 under VMS 3.0. I plan to get a copy of the Small-C compiler v2 (described in the current Dr. Dobb's Journal, #74) and convert it to generate 68000 code (i will make both a cross-compiler to run on the VAX under VMS and a native mode version to run on a Corvus Concept). If anyone can help me send mail to heller.umass-coins@udel-relay. Thanks in advance. robert heller heller.umass-coins@udel-relay 6-Dec-82 11:06:00,2477;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 at 1006-PST (Monday) From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 Subject: Re: id A11717; 4-Dec-82 05:26:42-PST (Sat) Message-Id: <60852.320.ucbcad@Berkeley> Received: from ucbvax by UCBCAD (3.147 [7/22/82]) id ; 6-Dec-82 14:19:25-PST (Mon) Received: from by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A09425; 6-Dec-82 14:19:10-PST (Mon) To: azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70 In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.210 of Sat Dec 4 05:26:56 1982 Via: Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 17:24-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 17:39-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 17:46-EST Regarding portables for sons-off-to-college: I have used the Kaypro-II, thought it an adequate solution. The Osborne doesn't please me very much, but I haven't seen it outside the showroom. I do like the Kaypro for what it offers, which is a simple CP/M system, without a whole lot of extra features. If 64K is enough main store, and 200K on each of two drives is enough mass store, then it ought to be adequate for a freshman or sophomore. The best portable (truly defining the term "portable"; the Kaypro and Osborne are merely "moveable") system, at least from my engineering standpoint, is the OTRONA Attache. The Attache is also a 64K CP/M system, 360K per shock-mounted disk drive. But it has a LOT of big pluses, which can't all be listed here, but include: Real time clock Bus extender (S-100, GPIB, STD) DMA Fully interrupt driven Graphics (damn good, too) comes with Wordstar (customized to keyboard), MBASIC(for what it's worth), software to utilize the clock, graphics tools, a RPN calculator, nice version of CP/M... The cost is a little higher ($3995), but it's engineering cost well spent. The system is professional, harddisk, 16-bit processor are planned extensions, battery-pack is available, 12-volt for use in campers etc, high-resolution screen, the list is long. The machine is an 8-bitter that will carry the user a long way into the future (specifically through college and graduate school and them some). I am impressed with the machine and plan to acquire one. You may wish to contact OTRONA at OTRONA Corporation 4755 Walnut Street Boulder, Colorado 80301 (303) 444-8100 My name is Scott Herzinger Software Engineering Microcomputer Development Products Tektronix, Inc PO Box 500, MS 92/525 Beaverton, Oregon uucp: tekmdp!scott ^ |_____ (I think) 6-Dec-82 11:14:00,964;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 at 1014-PST (Monday) From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 Subject: Re: id A11717; 4-Dec-82 05:26:42-PST (Sat) Message-Id: <60852.328.ucbcad@Berkeley> Received: from ucbvax by UCBCAD (3.147 [7/22/82]) id ; 6-Dec-82 14:19:44-PST (Mon) Received: from by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A09429; 6-Dec-82 14:19:28-PST (Mon) To: azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70 In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.210 of Sat Dec 4 05:26:56 1982 Via: Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 17:21-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 17:39-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 17:44-EST From: Scott Herzinger on OTRONA Attache Just found out that my uucp address is: tektronix!tekmdp!scotth for whatever that's worth. I can't give justice to the OTRONA. It's a beautifully engineered system. I will be sending my compliments to the engineers. After seeing the system, you probably will, too. the system, you probably will, too. 6-Dec-82 11:26:00,1803;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 at 1026-PST (Monday) From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!kennethw at Ucb-C70 Subject: Re: Aztec C Message-Id: <60852.338.ucbcad@Berkeley> Received: from ucbvax by UCBCAD (3.147 [7/22/82]) id ; 6-Dec-82 14:20:04-PST (Mon) Received: from by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A09434; 6-Dec-82 14:19:50-PST (Mon) To: tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70 In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.208 of Sat Dec 4 01:22:24 1982 Via: Mit-Ai; 6 Dec 82 17:22-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 17:39-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 17:45-EST I have the AZTEC C compiler for the HDOS system. The compiler itself seems to be quite good and generates fast code. My benchmarks show that it is faster than BDS in running the BYTE prime number benchmark. The library is quite complete and does support all the normal file I/O features. The output source code of the compiler can also be assembled using an M80 compiler if desired. Now for the bad news! The support of this product stinks. There are several small problems in the library (you can't write to the line printer, for example) and I have been totally unable to get any help out of MANX software on the problems. I am also unable to fix the problems since there library program does not work. I have called and written to MANX several times and have received either no answer or a very nasty one. They just are not willing to support there compiler, which is too bad because it is basically a good product. I would like to hear any other comments on the AZTEC compiler myself, especially if someone has managed to get the compiler working. Please post any useful information to the net. Thanks very much. Ken West TEKTRONIX Box 4600 Beaverton Oregon 97075 (503) 629-1533 6-Dec-82 12:06:00,388;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 12:06 EST From: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: In-reply-to: REECE's message of 3 December 1982 20:33-EST To: James E Reece cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Parc-Maxc; 6 Dec 82 12:08-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 12:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 12:36-EST Someplace recently [prob DEC Byte or DDJ or some other one] I read alot of praises for it... 6-Dec-82 17:14:00,928;000000000000 Date: 6 December 1982 19:14-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: MARC's size To: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 6 Dec 82 19:30-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 19:37-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 19:45-EST Thanx for the prompt reply. It is not as Big is i had expected it to be. You continue to talk about a modified BDS-C that comes with MARC (what does MARC stand for?). Is this modified BDS-C a modification of the most recent version of BDS-C (V1.5 i think)? You mentioned that some of the utilities are mixed bag z80 and 8080, are you using a Z80 library for BDS-C? Is there a Z80 library available for your modification to BDS-C? How often do YOU use the CPM emulator? It would seem that there is SO much software for CPM that one might find it hard to go without? How much is already available (Public Domain) for MARC right NOW? -Eliot at Mit-DM 6-Dec-82 17:19:00,598;000000000000 Date: 6 December 1982 19:19-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: Re: Aztec C compiler To: decvax!ihuxf!larry at Ucb-C70 cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 6 Dec 82 19:31-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 19:37-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 19:46-EST I have heard that Aztec-C II comes with TWO compilers and libraries. One compiler/library set for 8080 code and one set for Z80 code. Supposedly the Z80 compiler/library set can make some code that is really quite fast and small compared to the 8080 set. Is any of this true? Or is it just rumor? -Eliot at Mit-DM 6-Dec-82 18:53:00,1201;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 2053-EST From: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey) To: info-cpm at BRL Subject: large TPA's Message-id: <[MIT-DMS].251566> Via: Mit-Dms; 6 Dec 82 20:53-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 21:08-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 21:31-EST I have not been keeping up with the discussion on the larger TPA of CPM Plus when used with bank switch memory, but here is a thought to ponder. While MOST people probably wont go to the larger TPA CP/M due to cost, and not wanting to upgrade for one reason or another, I see no reason to ignore the large TPA. How many of you have been able to get a 48k program out of L80? I will bet that NO ONE has. It cannot be done! L80 uses so much space for symbol tables and what not, and Micro- Soft has not yet learned how to write things to disk when they are supposed to be written there, so that L80 cannot make I file much bigger than 40k on the AVERAGE cpm system. So now with the LARGER TPA we can make programs that are bigger, and they will still run on the systems that dont have the large TPA because it can be kept with in the limits and still be bigger than the programs we used to be able to write. -Eliot at Mit-DM 6-Dec-82 19:01:00,1017;000000000000 Date: 6 Dec 1982 2101-EST From: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey) To: info-cpm at BRL Subject: Why won't CPM Plus work? Message-id: <[MIT-DMS].251567> Via: Mit-Dms; 6 Dec 82 21:01-EST Via: Brl; 6 Dec 82 21:09-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 6 Dec 82 21:32-EST Lauren has been telling us that CPM Plus will cause many problems when we try to run programs that were written for CPM2.2 if these programs do any kind of disk i/o. He claims the reason is that the new BDOS does the blocking/deblocking in the BDOS and that screws things up. Why should this screw things up? Isn't the new BDOS supposed to >>LOOK<< like the old 2.2 BDOS as far as the disk I/O routines are concerned? Isn't the blocking/deblocking invisible to the user? From what I have heard from other sources it is exactly this? I am being mis-lead? It all makes very good sense to me, why would D.R. want to go and stick a knife in there own back? -Eliot at Mit-DM P.S. Please don't take offense to this letter Lauren. 6-Dec-82 20:18:41,3643;000000000000 Date: Mon Dec 6 1982 20:18:41 PST From: Lauren Weinstein Subject: MARC, etc. To: ELIOT at Mit-Mc CC: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Lbl-Unix; 7 Dec 82 3:18-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:36-EST The BDS-C that comes with MARC is a MARC-native version of whatever the latest CP/M version happens to be. I guess right now we *are* up to 1.5. Obviously, there are differences between the CP/M compiler/linker and the MARC version, since the MARC filesystem and other facilities allow much more flexibility than Leor had to work with under CP/M. The major point of departure between the two versions (MARC vs. CP/M) comes in the area of libraries. The MARC libraries are extremely extensive, and give direct access from C to all MARC system calls, including all the more "esoteric" ones such as "stat", "gtty", etc. Time conversion routines are also included, and automatically handle niceties such as daylight savings time, etc., as appropriate. (MARC keeps the time internally exactly the same way as Unix, as the number of seconds since Jan 1 1970 GMT). I have purposely discouraged any Z-80-only libraries, since I've learned that (somewhat to my surprise) there are still lots of people with 8080's and 8085's. As I said before, the benefits are not worth the hassles of trying to maintain two sets of libraries, and I refuse to leave my old 8080 supporters out in the cold! Note that the stdio library under MARC is even more extensive than under CP/M, and (as far as I can tell!) it exactly follows K&R for all supported functions, e.g.: #include FILE *infile; if ((infile = fopen("/etc/passwd", "r")) == NULL) { fprintf(stderr, "Can't open the password file!\n"); exit(-1); } does exactly what you would expect; no more of the CP/M kludges for file I/O. Also note that the old DIO library is no longer needed, since MARC handles such features at the shell/exec level. By the way, argv[0] (command name) is available under MARC, which turns out to be pretty handy! (Some commands in MARC are simply links to the same file that are called by different names -- depending on the name used, the program acts in different manners.) As for the CP/M emulator, I use it as little as possible, and I rarely ever NEED to use it. Most of my work is in BDS-C, and I long ago ported all of my BDS-C programs over to MARC -- it's mainly a job of pulling unneeded code and libraries OUT, since the MARC versions almost universally turn out to be smaller and much more similiar to Unix C. Many of the programs I write these days are almost fully portable between MARC and Unix. I mostly use the emulator for testing (things like MAC, WORDMASTER, M80, L80, etc.) but I never really "use" those things -- BDS-C and MINCE are the primary tools in my operation. Oh yeah, I use the emulator for playing an old Sargon chess game, and some of my dialup users play a few old BASIC games under the emulator. My hope is that most people will wean themselves away from CP/M programs as rapidly as possible. Since CP/M programs have such a limited idea of filenames, even the most simple programs can become much more flexible if ported over to native-MARC operation. Still, the emulator is there for those who need it. --Lauren-- P.S. In my experience, I've found that the vast majority of public domain CP/M programs I've collected have been utilities to try correct "defects" or fundamental limitations in CP/M. Frankly, under MARC, virtually none of those sorts of programs should be needed... --LW-- 6-Dec-82 23:18:00,540;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 01:18-EST From: Keith Petersen To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 1:20-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 1:26-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 1:45-EST Now available on MIT-MC: XMODEM60.ASM and .HIS. This replaces XMODEM58. The files are in: AR63:CPM;XMODEM 60ASM AR63:CPM;XMODEM 60HIS Sorry for any inconvenience the bug in 5.8 might have caused. Someone destroyed a register that was being used. XMODEM 6.0 has been tested and is now in daily use on the SYSOP RCPM as well as my own. 6-Dec-82 23:28:00,1419;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 01:28-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: TRS80 model II MODEM7 To: INFO-CPM at BRL cc: JDOS at Mit-Ai Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 1:28-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 1:41-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 1:47-EST This was sent out to the list some time back, but bears repeating for those who may not have seen it. It's easier than you think to put up MODEM2xx or MODEM7xx on the Model II. --- Date: 21 July 1981 2201-EDT (Tuesday) From: Bill Sholar Sender: William.Sholar at CMU-10A To: INFO-CPM Re: TRS-80 Model II MODEM Equates & Ports Since the documentation on the Mod 2 TRS-80 does not bother to discuss hardware, the following port addresses and equates for MODEM.ASM programs might prove useful to anyone using this machine: MODCTLP EQU 0F6H ;status/control port A MODSNDB EQU 04H ;bit 2 indicates ready to send MODSNDR EQU 04H ; with the bit set to 1 MODRCVB EQU 01H ;bit 0 indicates character received MODRCVR EQU 01H ; with the bit set to 1 MODDATP EQU 0F4H ;data port A These values, plugged into MODEM.ASM, allow the TRS-80 Mod 2 to function without any special system calls or other variations from the existing MODEM.ASM program, assuming the port has been set up using the SETUP (Pickles & Trout's CPM), CONFIG (Lifeboat's CPM) or SET (Cybernetics' CPM) utility for the appropriate baud rate, etc. 6-Dec-82 23:42:00,421;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 01:42-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: XMODEM17.C To: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 1:42-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 1:56-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 2:16-EST Anyone who runs an RCPM and is into BDS-C will want to look over XMODEM17.C. Sigi Kluger has added some nice features. This program is an update of XMODEM13.C. The file is on MC as AR63:CPM;XMODEM 17C 7-Dec-82 00:18:48,1819;000000000000 Date: Tue Dec 7 1982 00:18:48 PST From: Lauren Weinstein Subject: CPM To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms CC: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Lbl-Unix; 7 Dec 82 5:15-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:48-EST Eliot, Certainly I don't take offense at your message, but I don't think you've been reading my messages very carefully. I never said that CP/M Plus wouldn't work for disk I/O! What I said is that any programs that try to be "smart", thinking that they know exactly WHERE the BDOS, BIOS, disk deblocking, etc. are, will probably stop working. Remember that D.R. has claimed "functional compatibility" with 2.2, not total compatibility. My own interpretation of "functional" is that if you use BDOS and BIOS calls exclusively, the program will probably work, though I have some doubts about programs that use the BIOS to do their own "fancy" disk handling. Obviously, programs like DU, directory managers, and similar utilities will also probably be vulnerable to some degree to changes in CP/M. One other point -- if the disk blocking/deblocking is moved to the BDOS, then obviously the portion of the BDOS that contains the blocking/deblocking code can no longer be overlayed by most user programs. If you have a fancy bank-switched system you might not care, but on most systems, all of these changes are going to cost, somewhere! --Lauren-- P.S. I got a call a couple of days ago from a 3.0 Beta test site who was making a MARC query. He basically said something like, "by the way, they do I/O redirection all wrong..." He didn't have time to elaborate, but it didn't give me a very good feeling. By the way, BYTE published their box on MARC, but managed to print a totally erroneous phone number for Vortex. Sigh . --LW-- 7-Dec-82 00:55:00,522;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 02:55-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: SMODEM39.MAC available To: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 3:13-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:35-EST SMODEM39.MAC is now available on MC as ar65:cpm;SMODEM 39MAC. It includes the fixes in SMODEM38.FIX and some new routines for resetting error flags on USARTS. SMODEM is a customized version of MODEM7 for the D.C. Hayes smart modem. It has many special features specific to the Smart Modem. 7-Dec-82 03:00:00,2608;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 05:00-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: portables To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 4:59-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:47-EST Date: 7-Dec-82 01:54:59-PST (Tue) From: MAILER-DAEMON at Berkeley (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: POURNE Re: Unable to deliver mail ----- Transcript of session follows ----- azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Connecting to azure.uucp... bad system name: azure azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Service unavailable POURNE@MIT-MC... Connecting to mit-mc.arpa... ----- Unsent message follows ----- Date: 7 December 1982 04:48-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: id A11717; 4-Dec-82 05:26:42-PST (Sat) Message-Id: <8211070954.6705@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A06705; 7-Dec-82 01:54:59-PST (Tue) To: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth@UCB-C70 Cc: azure!tekcrd!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm@UCB-C70 The Osborne is the VW of the portables, and features good introductory documentation, a GOOD dealer net with service etc., and very vanilla hardware features. Lots of bundled software all good. The KayPro is a good machine, hardware speaking, but hasn't much good software with it. The screen flickers; try it first,, you may no be able to stand it. The KayPro screen is big enough to use alone; both Osborne and Otrona will require a larger monitor for on-station use. The Otrona is the BMW of the portables, and I agree with the referenced message about it; darned good machine. I have one. The dealer and service net is growing and well done also. But you will need a larger screen; fortunately there is a video out on the back for putting it on a monitor. You can use Otrona wihtout monitor, of course, and for a day or two is no problem; but I would hate to have to do it all the time. I carry an Otrona to all the co,puter shows; I can have my choice of a lot of them. There is a new machine, ZORBA, out at COMDEX; looked good, competitively priced with Osborne and Kaypro. Don't know about dealers, software, or service. Hyperion is interesting; as is the new Teleray small computer which has a 4-line liquid crystal screen (and a video outlet; the 4 lines are a window into a 24 line display of course). It looks good and should not be ignored. 7-Dec-82 03:16:00,590;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 05:16-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: CP/M for TRS80 Mod I/Lobo To: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc cc: Info-Cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 5:21-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:49-EST alas, the Omikron mapper is the only CP/M converter I remember being still current, although convergent technologies and a couple other outfits at one time made mappers for model one trs 80. Definitely no way to use the mapper with the lobo lpx-80 which is a pity, and was also a (inexplicable) deliberate decision on lobo's part. 7-Dec-82 03:29:00,664;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 05:29-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: Superbrain reputation results To: Heiby.Micro.PCO-MULTICS at BRL cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL, Heiby at Hi-Multics Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 5:28-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:51-EST I just got around to seeing this file. One point more: Intertec has a reputation for going to court and suing anyone who says their machiens are not nice and good and true and straight, and also getting court orders requiring magazines to accept their adds... I do not know if this is true, but I have heard it from sources who ought to know. 7-Dec-82 03:29:00,664;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 05:29-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: Superbrain reputation results To: Heiby.Micro.PCO-MULTICS at BRL cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL, Heiby at Hi-Multics Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 5:28-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:51-EST I just got around to seeing this file. One point more: Intertec has a reputation for going to court and suing anyone who says their machiens are not nice and good and true and straight, and also getting court orders requiring magazines to accept their adds... I do not know if this is true, but I have heard it from sources who ought to know. 7-Dec-82 03:45:00,879;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 05:45-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: IBM PC and ITS To: Schiffman at Sri-Kl cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 6:10-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 6:27-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 6:55-EST Crosstalk is VERY similar to a public domain program written by Larry hughes; and indeed Microstuf was distributor for Hughes until they ceased to pay him royalties claiming they had rewritten his program and thus no longer needed to. Hughes has written MITE which I am using now; this is marketed by MYCROFT Labs of Talahassee Fla. and is very easy to use. It uses mostly any protocols you like, has a lot of terminal types in the init, and transfers binary files even though the other end doesn't have the same link program that you have. If you are contemplating buying crosstalk, I urge you look at MITE first. 7-Dec-82 11:56:00,936;000000000000 Date: 7 Dec 1982 at 1056-PST To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Subject: BDS-C Benchmarks From: chesley.tsca at Sri-Tsc Via: Sri-Tsca; 7 Dec 82 11:35-PST Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 15:01-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 15:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 15:23-EST One thing to watch out for when doing BDS-C benchmarks is the huge difference between the code generated with no switches, and that generated with -o and -e (and making any variables that can be globals). (The person doing the Aztec benchmark didn't mention which way he did it.) I recently did a benchmark of BDS-C versus C/80, using the Byte prime number program. Without -o and -e, BDS-C took 41 seconds (this is timed from after the program loads to the next "A>" prompt (i.e., after the reboot), and thus may not compare to other numbers times from different points). With -o and -e, it took 17 seconds! C/80 took (if I remember correctly) 28 seconds. --Harry... 7-Dec-82 12:00:00,609;000000000000 Date: 7 Dec 1982 12:00 EST From: Thieret.WBST at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: large TPA's In-reply-to: ELIOT's message of 6 Dec 1982 2053-EST, <[MIT-DMS].251566> To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey) cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Parc-Maxc; 7 Dec 82 12:11-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 12:21-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 12:28-EST Eliot, To solve your 48k L80 problems, scrap L80 and use PLink. PLink writes the COM file to the disk and in addition allows the user to generate "arbitrarily complex overlay structures". PLink is slower than L80 but if your program is >48 K you need it anyway. Tracy. 7-Dec-82 14:47:00,487;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 16:47-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: Re: large TPA's To: Thieret.WBST at Parc-Maxc cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 16:46-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 17:12-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 17:40-EST I was not actually having a problem with it as I have not yet come up on a program that big, I was simply saying, IF. True, PLink can be the answer, I was just putting in my thoughts for the larger TPA. -Eliot at Mit-DM 7-Dec-82 15:09:00,437;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 17:09-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: MARC, etc. To: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 17:08-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 17:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 17:41-EST If most of the public domain software for CPM is to correct CPM deficiences (sp) and MARC will not need these, then what will there be to do on a MARC system? -Eliot at Mit-DM 7-Dec-82 18:31:45,274;000000000000 Date: 7-Dec-82 18:31:45 PST (Tuesday) From: WJThomas.es at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Parc-Maxc; 7 Dec 82 22:25-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 22:47-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 22:50-EST Thanks. ~ Bill 7-Dec-82 20:40:00,378;000000000000 Date: 7 Dec 1982 2240-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: large TPA's To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms cc: info-cpm at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 7-Dec-82 0221-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 22:49-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 23:04-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 23:19-EST have you tried Plink-II or DR's LINK ?? they're not Brain Damaged! ------- 7-Dec-82 20:41:00,447;000000000000 Date: 7 Dec 1982 2241-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: Why won't CPM Plus work? To: ELIOT at Mit-Dms cc: info-cpm at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 7-Dec-82 0238-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 7 Dec 82 22:41-EST Via: Brl; 7 Dec 82 23:04-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 7 Dec 82 23:17-EST manymanymany pograms do their own BIOS i/o. they do not do their own blocking. the bios is SUPPOSED to do it for them. ------- 7-Dec-82 21:50:00,3467;000000000000 Date: 7 December 1982 23:50-EST From: Allan D Plehn Subject: ASCII text to Std. English Braille Grade 2, American Version To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL cc: PLOUFF at Mit-Mc, FJW at Mit-Mc, ARPEE at Mit-Mc, ELLEN at Mit-Mc, HORNIG.SIPBADMIN at Mit-Multics Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 0:11-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 0:18-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 0:21-EST John, an acquaintance of mine who is blind, has recently purchased a microcomputer and a "VersaBraille" tactile braille display device. His objective is to be able to translate ASCII text files to braille code, for output to the VersaBraille. He has asked for help in locating a translation program that runs under CP/M, to translate CP/M ASCII text files to Standard English Braille, Grade 2, American Version. Any and all relevant information would be sincerely appreciated. Background Info 1. Braille symbols are not in one-for-one correspondance with letters of the alphabet. Contractions are used, in accordance with defined rules. "tion", for example, requires only one braille symbol (specifically, when the "tion" is the end of a word) 2. Braille symbols are "bumps" in the form of a 2x3 matrix, two wide and three high. 3. The VersaBraille is a portable device. It is about 14" wide by 8"deep and 6" high. It displays 20 braille symbols at a time in a 20- cell row of tactile output elements. Just above the 20-cell braille display is a long bar much like a space bar on a typewriter (or video terminal). When the 20 braille symbols have been read, a touch of the bar reads in the next 20 braille symbols from a buffer. The VersaBraille includes a capability to enter information, but I don't recall just how braille code is entered. It also includes a cassette drive for storing braille code files. Manufacturer: Telesensory Systems Inc.; Palo Alto, CA. Cost: approx $7000 Ouch! Two similar devices are available: the MB2400 (24-cell) from Triformation, Inc; Stewart, FL and the Brailink (40-cell) from Clarke & Smith. 4. The only translation software that John has been able to find for use on a micro is sold by Duxbury Systems, Inc.; Duxbury,MA. This translation program is object code that runs under Northstar DOS. (For that reason, in particular, John bought a Northstar Horizon). Price: (would you believe) $1000. The company says that they may market a CP/M version "in about a year". 5. There is apparently a standard way to transmit the 6-bit braille code since the same serial data that drives the VersaBraille will operate a braille printer. The LED120 Braille Printer (LED is acronym for Line Embossing Device), for example. 6. Pending availability of a translation program that runs under CP/M, it would be very helpful to be able to convert CP/M ASCII text files to Northstar Type 3 format. There are a number of laborious ways to accomplish this conversion but what is desired is a program that will do the conversion expediently with minimum hacking knowledge required of the operator. If such a translation program were available, John would at least be able to use the translation program that runs under N* DOS. Help! (Apologies to those that receive this msg twice.) 8-Dec-82 02:33:16,1640;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 01:33:16-PST From: lauren at Lbl-Unix (Lauren Weinstein [Vortex]) Subject: what are computers for? To: ELIOT at Mit-Mc CC: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Lbl-Unix; 8 Dec 82 4:33-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 4:38-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 4:58-EST Eliot, You must be kidding. What do you use ANY micro for? MARC simplyy provides a decent environment and a reasonable set of utilities to help enable the user to comfortably do whatever it is they *want* to do. Since the environment is reasonable to start with, all the P.D. programs like DUPUSER, XDIR, D, and a multitude of others are not needed with MARC, since those programs were efforts to raise CP/M to a more reasonable level than where it started. Some of the other useful programs (like SQ, USQ, DIFF, etc.) now have MARC versions which are generally more flexible than their CP/M counterparts, since they can take advantage of those features already in MARC, instead of having to fight their way around restrictions in CP/M. Most, if not all, of these sorts of utilities should be released with the system, assuming I can get the proper permissions from the original authors. I will probably not be in a position to read mail again for a couple of days, so if you have any more questions, please don't expect a terribly quick reply. In any case, I might suggest that some of your questions (particularly the last) might be better handled in private mail or with a simple phone call. I don't think it's fair to the other readers for us to turn this list into a continuous MARC question and answer session. Thanks much. --Lauren-- 8-Dec-82 02:36:00,489;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 0436-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: BDS-C Benchmarks To: chesley.tsca at Sri-Tsc cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-82 0256-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 4:38-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 4:54-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 4:59-EST another thing to consider is BDS-C with NOBOOT installed vs BDS-C without noboot -- a friend of mine has a H-89, and it takes 10+ secs to reboot! (that's DISguSTING!) ------- 8-Dec-82 05:19:00,781;000000000000 Date: 8 December 1982 07:19-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: Why won't CPM Plus work? To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc cc: ELIOT at Mit-Dms, INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 7:22-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 7:43-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 8:02-EST There seems to be a bit more concern than warranted about programs running under 2.2 being easily transportable to CP/M-Plus (aka 3.0.) It is my understanding that as long as a program does not use BIOS calls for disk operations, there should be no problem. A fellow at Digital research has assured us that >95% of the programs he has tried have given no problems. Those like DU, which uses BIOS calls rather than BDOS calls will not work, but ths class of program is certainly in the minority. 8-Dec-82 08:18:00,271;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 1018-EST (Wednesday) From: dudley at Nadc Subject: What is Plink-II? To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 10:52-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 11:13-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 11:26-EST From where is Plink-II available? W. Dudley ------- 8-Dec-82 09:30:00,588;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 09:30 EST From: clark.wbst at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: MARC, etc. In-reply-to: ELIOT's message of 7 December 1982 17:09-EST To: Eliot Scott Ramey cc: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix, info-cpm at BRL Via: Parc-Maxc; 8 Dec 82 9:30-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 9:45-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 10:12-EST "If most of the public domain software for CPM is to correct CPM deficiences (sp) and MARC will not need these, then what will there be to do on a MARC system?" Answer: How about the job for which you originally obtained the computer ? --Ray 8-Dec-82 10:49:00,976;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 10:49 EST From: wegeng.wbst at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: MARC, etc. In-reply-to: ELIOT's message of 7 December 1982 17:09-EST To: Eliot Scott Ramey cc: vortex!lauren at Lbl-Unix, info-cpm at BRL Via: Parc-Maxc; 8 Dec 82 10:50-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 11:12-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 11:24-EST Eliot, "...then will there be to do on a MARC system?" Well, lots. What is there to do on a RSX11-M system when we have RT-11? What about RSTS? The answer is that different operating systems appeal to different applications and different users. In reality that's a big reason why both UNIX and VMS exist for VAX computers, and will continue to exist. Each has it's group of followers. I personally have nothing against CP/M, but I find that the user interface (and general philosophy) of UNIX to be more to my liking. Therefore, I look forward to the day when I can purchase MARC for my home system. That's all. ==dw 8-Dec-82 11:26:00,1939;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 10:26-PST (Wednesday) From: hplabs!hp-pcd!jay at Ucb-C70 (Jay Phillips) Subject: MARC Message-Id: <8211082321.20004@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A20002; 8-Dec-82 15:21:46-PST (Wed) To: hplabs!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 8 Dec 82 18:33-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 18:48-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 18:57-EST Hello, My name is Jay Phillips. I work for Hewlett Packard's Personal Computer Division in Corvallis, Oregon. I've been a CP/M hacker for several years and a UNIX hacker more recently. I was also responsible for the software portion of HP's CP/M system for the HP86 and 87 computers. I have been following with great interest the news traffic about MARC. I was wondering if there is any way for me to get a copy of it, possibly as a test site. I would like to bring MARC up on our CP/M system (it is a Z80 card which plugs into the HP86 or 87 mainframe, similar to the apple Z80 softcard. A large majority of our customers are technical/engineer types and I feel that there would be a good demand for MARC running on our machines. Please send me a note letting me know what you think about this. My UUCP address is below. Thanks much. Jay Phillips ucbvax!hplabs!hp-pcd!jay P.S. If you are familiar with Berkeley UNIX you no doubt are aware of a massive game called Rogue. We were intrigued by it here and have been working on a version written in BDS C for CP/M. It's roughly 90% done. Unfortunately, I can't convince my boss to fund it as a project so it only gets worked on in my spare time. I would also like to bring it up under MARC. Jay P.P.S. If U.S. Snail or telephone is more convenient, the particulars follow. Jay Phillips Hewlett Packard Personal Computer Division Lab 3 1010 N.E. Circle Blvd. Corvallis, OR 97330 (503) 757-2000 x4124 8-Dec-82 11:40:00,931;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 1040-PST Sender: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie Subject: graphics From: SCHNUR at Usc-Isie To: info-cpm at BRL Message-ID: <[USC-ISIE] 8-Dec-82 10:40:54.SCHNUR> Via: Usc-Isie; 8 Dec 82 13:47-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 15:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 15:38-EST We are looking for Tektronix compatible graphics for a Cromemco based system to replace a Tektronix 4025 memory scope. We found the scope to be difficult to use because it was a bit too smart for the Cromemco. We need 1024 per line resolution for the graphics and we would like the terminal for graphics to double as the terminal. We will be outputting hard copy to a tektronix 4662. Our price limit is about $^$6K. At the moment we are considering a 4006 tektronix terminal but do not like it very much. The cromemco is currently operating under CDOS but we could probably be convinced to change the system if required. Any suggestions. 8-Dec-82 12:16:00,2472;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 at 1116-PST (Wednesday) From: teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 (UNIX-to-UNIX Copy) Subject: Re: portables Message-Id: <8211082246.24372@UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.256 [12/5/82]) id AA24372; 8-Dec-82 14:46:19-PST (Wed) Received: from UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A19115; 8-Dec-82 14:46:02-PST (Wed) To: azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70 In-Reply-To: Your news article ucbvax.269 of Tue Dec 7 23:13:11 1982 Via: Mit-Ai; 8 Dec 82 17:48-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 17:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 18:15-EST I hope this gets to Jerry Pournelle and others interested in portables-- I am a neophyte on the net, and am not sure just what's happenin' here... Kaypro: The Kaypro screen flicker and terrible character set has a hardware solution (so I here from a friend that has one). The solution is a character ROM originally built for the BigBoard from Digital Research Computers (of Texas, not the folks of CP/M). It's available from the folks at Micro- Cornucopia in Bend, Oregon. $25.00 US price, or $5.00 each if you send a fast ROM and prepaid return mailing. This ROM should get rid of the flicker and give a better character set (lower-case descenders, real semi-colon...) Their address: MICRO CORNUCOPIA PO Box 223 Bend, Oregon 97709 They also have a lot other neat things which go well with the KayPro, especially their magazine ``Micro Cornucopia-- the Single Board Systems Journal'', which means Xerox 820, too. Otrona: For a lot of people (I know at least five!) the Otrona screen is ``just right.'' The normal distance one sits from the screen makes the characters just a shade larger than what you see when reading the newspaper at normal distance. For me, the only time I'll need a larger monitor is for demonstrations, and working with more than one other person. The reason for the success of Otrona's screen is its high resolution. The characters are clear (unlike some other 5" screens). If the Otrona is called a ``portable'', then anything else (I have seen) is merely ``movable.'' Does anyone else have a problem with the clips on the south corners of the keyboard (used to hold the keyboard in place when closed) ? They dig into the fleshy parts below by little fingers when I place my hands on the keyboard in my usual way. 8-Dec-82 15:15:00,460;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 1715-EST From: Robert C Berwick Subject: Modem program for IBM PC To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 17:18-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 17:39-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 17:42-EST Does anyone have any information about a program to transfer files from TOPS-20 to an IBM PC? (Similar to LMODEM, I suppose.) Please send info to me directly, as I am not on the INFO-CPM mailing list. Thanks. ------- 8-Dec-82 16:52:26,641;000000000000 Date: 8-Dec-82 15:52:26-PST (Wed) From: menlo70!sytek!msm at Ucb-C70 Subject: ZCPR? Message-Id: <8211082352.20598@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A20593; 8-Dec-82 15:52:28-PST (Wed) To: menlo70!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 8 Dec 82 19:04-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 19:17-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 19:21-EST In the recent messages discussing CPM 3.0, something called ZCPR was mentioned. Could someone please elaborate on what it is and how to get it. Thank You. Michael S. Maiten Silicon Gulch, California <...!{ucbvax!menlo70,decvax}!sytek!msm> 8-Dec-82 17:04:00,520;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 1904-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: what are computers for? To: lauren at Lbl-Unix cc: ELIOT at Mit-Mc, INFO-CPM at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-82 0659-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 19:34-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 19:50-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 19:53-EST why to play games, of course! is there anybody else out there doing SERIOUS programming for the osborne (NO basic or (ugh!) pascal)? would like to get in touch! -andy ------- 8-Dec-82 17:38:08,881;000000000000 Date: 8 Dec 1982 17:38:08 CST (Wednesday) From: Mike Meyer Subject: Multitasking CP/M, anyone? To: info-cpm at BRL Cc: mwm at Okc-Unix Via: Okc-Unix; 8 Dec 82 18:59-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 19:17-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 19:19-EST A friend of mine asked me to post the following to the net: Could you put out a polite enquiry if anyone would be interrested in a sourced multitasking Z80 operating system with CP/M compatibily for nominal hassle fee? It is NOT available yet (it boots but need lots of work) I was just wondering how much demand and or help was available. If memory serves me correctly, this package (called MP/X) runs under either the standard CP/M BIOS or the BDOS. It comes with a shell, stty, etc. It looks (a little) like MP/M 1 in the way it handles processes. Putting a copy on MC is a possibility. Subject: Re: What is Plink-II? To: dudley at Nadc cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-82 1909-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 20:25-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 20:50-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:07-EST Plink-II is Pheonix (sp) Software Associate's linker that is compatible with microsoft's .REL file format. it not only links programs larger than the memory of the computer, it will also do overlays (necessary for BIG programs). it's (or was, i think) available from lifeboat. it is a *must* when devo'ing (are we not men?) large programs - l80 really bytes the bag at this (%out of memory (or some such nonsense)). Sharon Enjoy (or visa versa) -andy ------- 8-Dec-82 18:32:00,367;000000000000 Date: 8 December 1982 20:32-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 20:31-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 20:50-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:08-EST Date: 8 December 1982 19:34-EST From: Michael C. Adler Trouble is, you are right! What would I do if CP/M were perfect? -Michael 8-Dec-82 19:13:00,10173;000000000000 Date: 8 December 1982 21:13-EST From: Eric O Stork To: STORK at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 21:12-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 21:19-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:31-EST Subject: Comments on 'Portable' Micros. On December 4, I asked CPM-INFO and CPM-MICRO readers for comment on what 'portable' micro to get for my college-bound son who has used my system for his written work for over two years now. I got a number of responses to my question. I suspect that many people may be interested in this informal survey of user views, so have cleaned up (i.e., removed extraneous routing data, and corrected typos) the responses. I have made no substantive changes whatsoever to the responses -- just organized them a bit to make them easier to read. If there are additional views -- especially views or ideas not expressed below -- send them to me. If I get enough to make it worthwhile, I'll update and resubmit to the network. Eric Stork STORK at MIT-MC Dec 8, 1982 COMMENTS ON PORTABLE MICROS From: Jeffrey at OFFICE Get one which is as compatible as possible with the IBM PC which will soon take over the micro world like the 370 has taken over mainframes. Look at the COMPAQ. Its pretty compatible but you can't plug all the PC option board from third party vendors into COMPAQ. The CORONA is more compatible but I don't know anything about its quality. Jeffrey Stone Menlo Park, CA ^_ From: mknoxUTEXAS-11 The OSBORNE has a lot of users, many of whom are no doubt going to respond to your query. The factory responsiveness has been excellent, possibly because Osborne himself is somewhat conscious of his reputation. At $1795 there is no question that it is worth the money. I recently had a chance to play with an ATTACHE ($3995.) and liked it. At more than twice the price it does (and better) offer a better, more expandable system. Jerry Pournelle (Pourne at MIT-MC) did a brief review in the latest BYTE on the ATTACHE, and he also has an OSBORNE. Screen is very crisp, and a lot more flexible with raster graphics dot addressable, but it sure is small! For serious work I think you are going to need a bigger monitor for whichever you get (both have them available). ^_ From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz) New machines were just released at Comdex this past week. Unfortunately, my literature hasn't shown up yet, so I will work from memory. There were a number of new CP/M portables announced, most notably the Jonos Computer out of Anaheim, CA using the new Sony floppies. Cute little toy, uses STD bus, so it can be diddled. On the 8088 side, there were a few released, most notably the DOT from Computer Devices of Burlington MA, the Chameleon from someplace, and the Compac, also from someplace, but my guess as the winner. The DOT: an 8088 machine using Sony 3" floppies. Not bad. The Chameleon. "IBM PC Compatible" selling for $1995 and using an 8088 and Z80..best price machine, but company seemed underfunded. Wouldn't take a chance. The Compac - funded by Sevin Rosen and designed to be hardware and software compatible with the IBM PC. This means that you can go out and buy the thing and with add on cards use any processor from a Z80 - 8088 - 8086 - 286 - 68000 and OS's from CP/M - PC-DOS - CP/M-86 - Concurrent CP/M XENIX: Since its heavily funded and a rather nice machine and portable it would be the best bet. Look to magazine adds or ask you local computer stores. It should be getting lots of press. I would probably check it out over the Kaypro. Don't buy an Osborne. David ^_ From: Keith Petersen When you told him not to buy an Osborne, did you consider the new one which is supposed to have double-density disks and a larger screen? That might be worth a few comments to the Info-Cpm list, if you're familiar with it. I haven't seen it myself - only heard about it via messages on CompuServe CP-MIG. ^_ From: Stephen King Here's some trivial input. I've had the Osborne demonstrated to me and have worked the KayPro for the past two days... so I can't speak from much experience on those. I do own a Heath H8 and Apple ][+, had an Atari 400 and am systems manager for several large-scale systems and micros at work. The screen on the Osborne is too small. The KP keyboard has a nice feel and the screen size is 1002 better. The characters are larger and eye fatigue should be less. The KP was about $100 cheaper. Seems the Osborne was a little heavier and was not constructed as durable as the KP. I saw that the KP scratched a little on the keyboard, but that came about from the owner sitting the KP ON the keyboard to angle the CRT for a better view. I thought the drives were a little noisy on the KP, don't remember the Osborne; but then again... I think the Apple drives are noisy. The Heath drives are very quiet. I liked the removable keyboard on the KP. All in all, I would suggest the KP! Hope this helps... Steve King ^_ From: Andrew Scott Beals The osborne is great and wonderful. My serial number is 825(!). Its had heavy use for over a year, and it's still hanging together. you might wanna checkout the new morrow or godbout. the Kaypro (aka the K-mart computer) really isn't too good. The disks are slow and you don't get as much doc as with the osborne. also, the O1 runs at 4mHz (the kmart runs at 2.25 for some strange reason). If you have ANY questions about the O1 ^_ From: Jerry E. Pournelle The Osborne is the VW of the portables, and features good introductory documentation, a GOOD dealer net with service etc., and very vanilla hardware features. Lots of bundled software all good. The KayPro is a good machine, hardware speaking, but hasn't much good software with it. The screen flickers; try it first, you may no be able to stand it. The KayPro screen is big enough to use alone; both Osborne and Otrona will require a larger monitor for on-station use. The Otrona is the BMW of the portables, and I agree with the referenced message about it; darned good machine. I have one. The dealer and service net is growing and well done also. But you will need a larger screen; fortunately there is a video out on the back for putting it on a monitor. You can use Otrona without monitor, of course, and for a day or two is no problem; but I would hate to have to do it all the time. I carry an Otrona to all the computer shows; I can have my choice of a lot of them. There is a new machine, ZORBA, out at COMDEX; looked good, competitively priced with Osborne and Kaypro. Don't know about dealers, software, or service. Hyperion is interesting; as is the new Teleray small computer which has a 4-line liquid crystal screen (and a video outlet; the 4 lines are a window into a 24 line display of course). It looks good and should not be ignored. Osborne 80 cols available in January, retrofit is about $100 install and $75 for mod, I believe; but after Jan it will come with it, I think. Just now you can get dBase-II with an old Osborne single-density disk system, plus a coupon to get double density mod, plus if you get double density and 80 cols installed at same time the installation fee is once only (ie $100 for both not $100 each). As I said earlier, Osborne has good service. Otrona is groovy machine but expensive. I like them both. Kaypro you want to look at. It's nice but there are funny things. ^_ From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 [or tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at UCB-C70 (?)] Regarding portables for sons-off-to-college: I have used the Kaypro-II, thought it an adequate solution. The Osborne doesn't please me very much, but I haven't seen it outside the showroom. I do like the Kaypro for what it offers, which is a simple CP/M system, without a whole lot of extra features. If 64K is enough main store, and 200K on each of two drives is enough mass store, then it ought to be adequate for a freshman or sophomore. The best portable (truly defining the term "portable"; the Kaypro and Osborne are merely "moveable") system, at least from my engineering standpoint, is the OTRONA Attache. The Attache is also a 64K CP/M system, 360K per shock-mounted disk drive. But it has a LOT of big plusses, which can't all be listed here, but include: Real time clock Bus extender (S-100, GPIB, STD) DMA F interrupt driven Graphics (damn good, too) comes with Wordstar (customized to keyboard), MBASIC(for what it's worth), software to utilize the clock, graphics tools, a RPN calculator, nice version of CP/M... The cost is a little higher ($3995), but it's engineering cost well spent. The system is professional, hard disk, 16-bit processor are planned extensions, battery-pack is available, 12-volt for use in campers etc, high-resolution screen, the list is long. The machine is an 8-bitter that will carry the user a long way into the future (specifically through college and graduate school and them some). I am impressed with the machine and plan to acquire one. You may wish to contact OTRONA at OTRONA Corporation 4755 Walnut Street Boulder, Colorado 80301(303) 444-8100 My name is Scott Herzinger Software Engineering Microcomputer Development Products Tektronix, Inc PO Box 500, MS 92/525 Beaverton, Oregon #### 8-Dec-82 20:33:00,344;000000000000 Date: 8 December 1982 22:33-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: Re:what are computers for? To: lauren.LBL-CSAM at BRL cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 22:48-EST Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 23:02-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 23:19-EST When I made that statement, I was just kidding, HONEST! -Eliot at Mit-DM 8-Dec-82 21:52:00,707;000000000000 Date: 8 December 1982 23:52-EST From: Paul L Kelley Subject: Fix file for MODEM794 To: INFO-CPM at BRL cc: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc, PLOUFF at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 23:52-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 0:08-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 0:24-EST AR61:CPM;MFIX 794DIF is a very short fix file for AR61:CPM;MODEM 794ASM. It fixes MODEM794 so that there is an initial NAK (or CRC) sent in the receive mode before waiting for the first SOH. The lack of this initial NAK (or CRC) caused an unnecessary timeout in the first sector transfer. This was an error I introduced in changing the program so that the receive mode sends more than one CRC when setting up the first sector transfer. 9-Dec-82 01:01:00,956;000000000000 Date: 9 December 1982 03:01-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: ZCPR? Message-Id: <8211090803.540@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A00520; 9-Dec-82 00:03:47-PST (Thu) Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A09836; 10-Dec-82 09:23:59-PST (Fri) To: menlo70!sytek!msm at Ucb-C70 Cc: menlo70!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 12:24-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 12:42-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 13:05-EST ZCPR means "Z80 CCP Replacement". It offers many new features not in the "stock" DR CCP, takes same 2k space, is fully documented with instructions on how to install it (needs an experienced machine-language programmer to do it, however). Those who've used it like it so much they don't use their distribution CCP anymore. ZCPR files are available on almost any "Remote CP/M" system via modem. See any RCPMLIST for phone numbers. 9-Dec-82 02:49:33,1638;000000000000 Date: 9 Dec 82 02:49:33 EST (Thu) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: 8080 to 8086 translation To: Tony Cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: UCF-CS; 9 Dec 82 4:29-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 9 Dec 82 15:46-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 16:08-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 16:20-EST Further to my complaint about XLT86, I finally got around to reading the manual from DRI. (This is always the final step around here). The memory overflow problem is indeed documented, to wit: (page 27) 4.3 Memory Overflow "The XLT86 program occupies approximately 30K bytes of main memory. The remainder of memory, up to the base of CP/M, stores the program graph that represents the 8086 program being translated [sic]. The error message: ERROR (7) "Free Space Exhausted" is issued if the program graph exceeds available memory. A 64K CP/M system allows translation of 8080 programs of up to approximately 6K. [!!!!] The above error causes XLT86 to terminate. To continue, you must divide your source program into smaller modules and retry the translation." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, if DRI is trying to impose modular programming practices upon us, that is just about as bad as Godbout "requiring" CP/M purchasers to purchase a Sorcim assembler to maintain their BIOS. While DRI used some nice dataflow analysis in XLT86, that is of little consequence when most of my programs are larger than "6k" and, therefore, can't be translated. I feel like I got "soaked" for $150 at this point. Ben 9-Dec-82 03:14:00,1476;000000000000 Date: 9 December 1982 05:14-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: sorry to do this To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 5:13-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 5:19-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 5:29-EST Sorry to put this to whole list, but I do not know how else to reply to these two... Date: 8-Dec-82 22:36:53-PST (Wed) From: MAILER-DAEMON at Berkeley (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: POURNE Re: Unable to deliver mail ----- Transcript of session follows ----- azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Connecting to azure.uucp... bad system name: azure azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm... Service unavailable POURNE@MIT-MC... Connecting to mit-mc.arpa... ----- Unsent message follows ----- Date: 9 December 1982 01:33-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: portables Message-Id: <8211090636.28824@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A28824; 8-Dec-82 22:36:53-PST (Wed) To: teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth@UCB-C70 Cc: azure!tektroni!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm@UCB-C70 Thanks for informatiojjn. Otrona has a NEW screen system (they came by and installed one in mine today) that is REALLY nice.... with that I agree you would not need a larger monitor. Kaypro does not come with good software but is good machine othereise. JEP 9-Dec-82 04:52:00,228;000000000000 Date: 9 December 1982 06:52-EST From: Devon S McCullough To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 7:17-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 7:31-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 7:51-EST please flush me from the list 9-Dec-82 06:32:31,2309;000000000000 Date: 9 Dec 82 8:32:31-EST (Thu) From: Rick Conn Subject: Re: ZCPR? Message-Id: <8211091422.7913@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A07911; 9-Dec-82 06:22:13-PST (Thu) Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A09846; 10-Dec-82 09:24:16-PST (Fri) To: menlo70!sytek!msm at Ucb-C70 Cc: menlo70!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70, rconn at BRL Via: Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 12:26-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 12:42-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 13:08-EST ZCPR, which stands for Z80 Command Processor Replacement, is a replacement for the CP/M 2.2 CCP. It gives the user several advantages over the conventional CP/M 2.2 CCP, which include: o command-search hierarchy, where if the desired COM file is not found in the current disk/user, ZCPR will automatically search for it in current disk/user 0 and then A0: before giving up o enhancements on several of the CCP-resident commands: SAVE's argument may be in Hex or Decimal TYPE can page or not page as desired LIST is like a non-paging TYPE to the printer DIR can display SYS files or both SYS and DIR GO reexecutes the last command loaded GET manually loads a file into memory at a location specified by the user DFU allows the search to go to some other user than 0 o the ZCPR prompt displays the disk and user number There are other features as well, but I won't go into them now. ZCPR is in the public domain (=FREE), and is available on several Remote CP/M systems, on MIT-MC in the CPM archives, and in the SIG/M User's Group (which will cost about $5 for the disk and handling) in Vol 77. ZCPR2, which I consider to be a greatly enhanced imple- mentation of the ZCPR concept, will be released shortly. It in- cludes further extensions, and a message will come out describing it when it is ready. Rick 9-Dec-82 07:00:00,914;000000000000 Date: 9 Dec 1982 0900-EST From: WOHL at Cmu-Cs-C Subject: new cpmutl, ver 7,utility to read/write cpm floppy on vax To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc, info-micro at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 9:02-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 9:23-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 9:49-EST CPMUTL is a program you run under vax unix on a vax-780. It uses the floppy drive (that every 780 has) to read and write cpm format floppies. If someone has tried to run CPMUTL under VMS please drop me a note saying what the problems if any where encountered. There is a new release of cpmutl that has a bug mz@cmu-cs-vlsi found fixed. When files where read from the floppy the unix file wasn't closed so a multiple get with more than 16 files failed. It is available from: MIT-MC CPM;AR43:CPMUTL 7C CMU-CS-C PS:CPMUTL.C.7 CMU-CS-VLSI (a uucp and ip-tcp vax at CMU) /usr/avw/cpmutl/cpmutl7.c Aaron ------- 9-Dec-82 08:24:08,333;000000000000 Date: 9-Dec-82 8:24:08 PST (Thursday) From: WJThomas.es at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take me off this distribution list. To: info-cpm at BRL cc: WJThomas at Parc-Maxc Via: Parc-Maxc; 9 Dec 82 12:17-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 12:40-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 12:53-EST Please take me off this distribution list. ~ Bill 9-Dec-82 10:19:00,511;000000000000 Date: 9 December 1982 12:19-EST From: Robert L Plouffe Subject: MODEM7 BUG FIX To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL cc: PLK at Mit-Mc, W8SDZ at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Ai; 9 Dec 82 12:18-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 12:41-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 12:55-EST The file MDM795 794DIF in AR61:CPM; at MIT-MC provides the Paul Kelley fix for the initial timeout problem AND adds an enhancement by Ken Stritzel that allows user area as well as logged drive to be changed from the command line. 9-Dec-82 10:45:00,366;000000000000 Date: 9 Dec 1982 1245-EST (Thursday) From: dudley at Nadc Subject: Mike Meyer/Multitasking CP/M To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 12:47-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 13:21-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 13:31-EST My mail program does not know of the address 'mwm@Okc-Unix'. Does anyone know the trick for talking to this guy? Thanks --dud ------- 9-Dec-82 12:41:00,590;000000000000 Date: Thursday, 9 Dec 1982 11:41-PST To: INFO-CPM at BRL Cc: bridger at Rand-Unix Subj: CPM 3.0 timestamp From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 9 Dec 82 16:05-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 16:23-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 16:34-EST Can someone supply the file specifications and protocol for CPM 3.0's date and timestamp feature? We are working on a design for automatic stamping of files under CPM 2.2; files will be stamped with create, last access and last modified date/time. It may be desirable to aim for as much compatibility with 3.0 as possible. bridger. 9-Dec-82 14:25:29,564;000000000000 Date: Thu Dec 9 13:25:29 1982 From: decvax!harpo!seismo!presby!aron at Ucb-C70 Subject: Marc Message-Id: <8211101146.4657@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A04655; 10-Dec-82 03:46:38-PST (Fri) To: seismo!harpo!decvax!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 6:57-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 7:18-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 7:41-EST Marc sounds wonderful to me. Maybe we should leave lauren alone so he can bring it to market quicker! aron shtull-trauring seismo!harpo!presby!aron 9-Dec-82 17:59:00,675;000000000000 Date: 9 Dec 1982 1959-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: portables To: teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 cc: info-cpm at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 9-Dec-82 0126-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 20:50-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 21:02-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 21:19-EST by `other' 5" screens, i assume you mean the osborne... the osborne is MORE readable than the otrona, 'cause the characters are bigger, and therefore clearer. yes, both the little keyboard and the clips on it give me pains within 5 mins of use oof the little bugger. otherwise, it's a VERY good machine (GREAT graphics). -andy ------- 9-Dec-82 18:26:07,579;000000000000 Date: Thu Dec 9 17:26:07 1982 From: teklabs!ogcvax!hp-pcd!hplabs!hpda!dah at Ucb-C70 (UNIX-to-UNIX Copy) Subject: bds/cpm rogue Message-Id: <8211100618.227@UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.256 [12/5/82]) id AA00227; 9-Dec-82 22:18:48-PST (Thu) Received: from UCBCAD.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A08863; 10-Dec-82 08:23:21-PST (Fri) To: hplabs!hp-pcd!ogcvax!teklabs!ucbcad!ucbvax.info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 10 Dec 82 11:23-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 11:43-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 11:58-EST 9-Dec-82 19:21:00,1266;000000000000 Date: 9 December 1982 21:21-EST From: Frank J Wancho Subject: [MADLER: Am I doing something wrong in the address? Thanks!] To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 9 Dec 82 21:20-EST Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 21:36-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 21:45-EST For those of you who send mail to either list and get rejection notices: -------------------- To: Michael C Adler Re: Am I doing something wrong in the address? Thanks! No, you aren't doing anything wrong. There are occassional glitches in the variety of machines that pass INFO-CPM (and INFO-MICRO) mail. There usually isn't much we can do about it unless it persists for about a week. Then we remove the offending address and wait until someone complains about not getting the mail (and perhaps offers an explanation of what was happening during the glitch period). That's about all that can be done. Most of the time the problems simply go away all by themselves... -------------------- Now, what would *really* be nice is if *someone* fixed things so that these rejection notices went to the maintainer of the particular mailing list - maybe after the mad rush to meet the 1 Jan 83 cutover to TCP/IP settles down... --Frank 10-Dec-82 03:54:17,1308;000000000000 Date: 10-Dec-82 02:54:17-PST (Fri) From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz) Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!! Message-Id: <8211101054.17653@UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.224 [10/16/82]) id A17649; 10-Dec-82 02:54:20-PST (Fri) Received: from UCBARPA.BERKELEY.ARPA by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A03289; 10-Dec-82 02:52:32-PST (Fri) To: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Via: Ucb-C70; 10 Dec 82 5:55-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 6:06-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 6:19-EST This comes third hand from a materials scientist in Silicon Valley who is working on hard disk recording methods. I am not sure of the actual techical accuracy, but the gist is AVOID ELEPHANT MEMORY DISKS - THEY WILL SCREW UP YOUR HEADS. The disks have a large amount of what I think he called Alumina. Although the disks do not seem to have many errors, they have an interesting side effect. The alumina(?) is used to reduce cost and increase disk reliability, but too much will erode the heads of disk drives. The Elephant disks have too much. I am trying to get a more specific and accurate description of the problem and will post it as soon as I decipher it. In the intevening weeks, simply beware of Elephehant memory disks. David 10-Dec-82 08:39:54,339;000000000000 Date: 10-Dec-82 8:39:54 PST (Friday) From: WJThomas.es at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 10 Dec 82 14:34-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 14:48-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 14:57-EST Please take my name off this distribution list. Thanks, Bill 10-Dec-82 08:58:00,675;000000000000 Date: 10 December 1982 08:58 cst From: Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics Reply-To: heiby at Hi-Multics To: bridger at Rand-Unix cc: info-cpm at BRL, Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics In-Reply-To: Msg of 12/10/82 05:30 from bridger Via: Hi-Multics; 10 Dec 82 10:01-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 10:18-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 10:37-EST When Gary Kildall (Pres DRI) spoke at my CP/M user group meeting in Mpls, he said that the disk structure was different between 2.2 and Plus. He said that Plus would be able to run in an emulation mode for 2.2 as far as the directory, etc. format was concerned. I think I'd ignore CP/M Plus disk compatability for a 2.2 system. Ron. 10-Dec-82 12:29:58,356;000000000000 Date: 10 Dec 82 14:29:58-EST (Fri) From: Earl Weaver (VLD/VMB) To: info-cpm at BRL cc: karen at BRL Subject: Dynalogic Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 15:10-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 15:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 15:41-EST Does anybody know anything about this company? Please send replies to karen@brl. Thanks. 10-Dec-82 14:46:33,2379;000000000000 Date: 10 Dec 82 16:46:33-EST (Fri) From: Rick Conn To: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Subject: JRT Pascal released in SIG/M Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 16:53-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 16:58-EST I thought you would like to know. From this month's (DEC 82) issue of the "Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey News" in the SIG/M Report column: "JRT PASCAL came first with Ellis and others following. The Pascal Z group took note of the non-commercial release provi- sions of the JRT PASCAL and released it as their volume 18. SIG/M is now releasing it as volume 82. We read one rave review and one that said it wasn't worth the new price. We know of at least one bug - try multiplying by 0, but we think for those of you interested in trying a little Pascal, it is worth getting our volume 82." Hence, JRT PASCAL looks like it is *FREE* to me. If you have a computer club which is already getting the SIG/M disks, you can get it from them, or the SIG/M copying charge is $5/disk + $1/order (I think I misquoted $4/disk earlier). In further confirmation, the following are the files on volume 82 of SIG/M: ARCTAN.INT ARCTAN.PAS CONVERTM.INT COS.INT COS.PAS CUSTOMIZ.INT DEBUG.INT ERASE.INT EXEC.COM EXP.INT EXP.PAS JGRAF.INT JGRAF.PAS JRTASM.INT JRTPAS2.COM JSTAT.INT JSTAT.PAS LETTERS.INT LINKER.INT LN.INT LN.PAS PASCAL.LIB PASCAL0.INT PASCAL1.INT PASCAL2.INT PASCAL3.INT PASCAL4.INT RENAME.INT RESETBIT.ASM SETBIT.ASM SIN.INT SIN.PAS SQRT.INT SQRT.PAS TESTBIT.ASM For those who already have purchased JRT PASCAL, is this a complete list of the files? Also, for those interested, ZCPR 1.0 and 1.6 are now be- ing distributed on SIG/M disk 77. I also gave SIG/M ALL of SYS- LIB, and it will take up three SIG/M disks all by itself. Com- plete source to everything was included, as well as the huge do- cumentation files and all the HLP files. I don't remember if I gave them the new User's Guide, but if I didn't, it will come out later. I don't yet know which SIG/M volumes SYSLIB will be in, but I'll drop you a message when I find out. Rick 10-Dec-82 16:20:00,461;000000000000 Date: 10 Dec 1982 1520-PST From: SHOSTAK at Sri-Csl Subject: Disk Drives for IBM PC To: info-cpm at BRL cc: shostak at Sri-Csl Via: Sri-Csl; 10 Dec 82 18:22-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 18:54-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 19:12-EST A sales person for IBM products claimed that it is unsafe to install non-IBM-furnished Tandon 5 1/4 inch floppies in IBM PC's because modifications are needed. Any truth to this? --Rob Shostak@sri-csl ------- 10-Dec-82 17:01:00,334;000000000000 Date: 10 Dec 1982 17:01 PST From: DWONG.ES at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take me off this distribution list To: info-cpm at BRL cc: DWONG.es at Parc-Maxc Via: Parc-Maxc; 10 Dec 82 20:06-EST Via: Brl; 10 Dec 82 20:18-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 10 Dec 82 20:46-EST Please take me off this distribution list Thanks Dennis Wong 10-Dec-82 22:10:00,718;000000000000 Date: Saturday, 11 December 1982 00:10-EST Sender: CAL.MIT-OZ at BRL From: Cliff Lasser To: Lauren at Ucla-Security cc: Rizzi at Usc-Isib, INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 2:17-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 2:51-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 2:58-EST There is a lack of a feature in CPM that I hope exists in MARC: It is impossible to return to the disk operating system any part of a file that is no longer being used. For example, one can't cause a file to be shortened by returning all allocated disk blocks after a particular point in the file. Does MARC have a system call to do this? If anyone knows an easy fix for this in CPM, please let me in on it. Thanx -Cliff 11-Dec-82 00:53:00,524;000000000000 Date: 11 December 1982 02:53-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!! To: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 2:51-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:09-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:14-EST My engineers tell me much the same thing, except that for Atari drives Elephant disks are better than Dysans because with Atari the thicker the medium the better; or so say they for reasons that I did not bother to try to understand. jep 11-Dec-82 00:58:00,605;000000000000 Date: 11 December 1982 02:58-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: portables To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL, teklabs!tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 2:55-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:09-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:19-EST cannot agree that Osborne is more readable than Otrona. I have both. Otrona, especially with the new screen (all the ones sold now will have it) is VERY readable, so much so that my assistant editor has decided that he doesn't want me to hook up the monitor because the Otrona screen is good enough. 11-Dec-82 01:00:00,387;000000000000 Date: 11 December 1982 03:00-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: 8080 to 8086 translation To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 3:04-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:31-EST Was ist mit the sorcim act for teh Godbout BIOS? We assemble ours with RMAC and it works very well. 11-Dec-82 06:36:00,1198;000000000000 Date: 11 December 1982 08:36-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!! To: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 cc: Info-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 8:49-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 8:55-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 9:03-EST Alumina is aluminum oxide and is used as an industrial abrasive. Floppy disks would use such a material to keep the heads clean I would assume, although too much of it is certainly akin to inserting a floppy sandpaper sheet rather than a diskette! It would be most interesting to learn which vendor uses what it his medium formulation; I am frankly weary of third-hand reports and horror stories re diskettes - if I listened to all of them, there would certainly be no diskette that I could use with complete confidence! My philosophy to a certain extent is that you get what you pay for, though I doubt one can apply this too rigidly to such a hocus-pocus field as magnetic media. It would be nice if the manufacturers of diskettes (and tapes too for that matter) would stop trying to snow is and come up with some meaningful standard, industry-wide performance specifications. It is not likely that they will. Charlie 11-Dec-82 06:45:00,1154;000000000000 Date: 11 December 1982 08:45-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: CP/M plus compatibility, etc. To: heiby at Hi-Multics cc: bridger at Rand-Unix, INFO-CPM at BRL, Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 8:49-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 8:55-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 9:04-EST I can only tell you that a friend is running an RCPM under CP/M plus in bank-switched mode. He had no problem running the 2.2 softeare without modification. I guess Gary was too busy elsewhere in DR to be current with the development team. An interesting aside on CP/M plus development that I heard from a reliable source - CP/M Plus was developed in C on the DR VAX and cross-assembled to run on the in-house ALTOS. I understand that their were mucho bugs as a result that took months to iron out. I am curious as to whether the development group would do it the same way again or go back to native assembly language? Sorry, I could get no info on which C was used; there has been a persisent rumor about that DR will release a C of their own for the micro community, but all I have gotten up to now are wry smiles and no comments! 11-Dec-82 07:59:00,859;000000000000 Date: 11 Dec 1982 0959-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: how to get your name removed from the list. To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Ml; 11 Dec 82 9:59-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 10:14-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 10:26-EST look people, this is getting silly. i can't do a * thing about who is or isn't on the mailing list, and neither can 99% of the other people who are on it. there is a de-facto standard for mailing lists. if the list is called BRAIN-DAMAGED@HOST then all requests for changes of address, additions, deletions, etc should go to BRAIN-DAMAGED-REQUEST@HOST not to the whole #%$^%&#^$* list. the next person to adct brain-damaged after this message gets out will recieve the entire source code for a PDP-0 cobol compiler in his mailbox. CUT IT OUT! disgusted, -andy ------- 11-Dec-82 08:08:00,563;000000000000 Date: 11 Dec 1982 1008-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: Re: Floppy Disk Warning!!! To: CSTROM at Mit-Mc cc: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70, Info-CPM at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 11-Dec-82 0931-EST Via: Mit-Ml; 11 Dec 82 10:10-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 10:21-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 10:39-EST just goes to show. you usually *do* get what you pay for. maxell makes some of the best mag. med. overall, and the best floppies around. like i've said before, they'll take abuse and not drop data. -andy ------- 11-Dec-82 09:50:00,1006;000000000000 Date: Saturday, 11 December 1982 11:50-EST Sender: X.GYRO.MIT-OZ at BRL From: X.GYRO at Mit-Mc To: Charlie Strom Cc: info-cpm at BRL Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!! In-reply-to: The message of 11 Dec 1982 08:36-EST from Charlie Strom Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 11:50-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 11:56-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 11:59-EST A friend of mine at DEC was responsible for designing the drives and selecting the media for the DEC PCs. He did extensive head wear testing of various diskettes with the following interesting result: Maxell disks had the lowest error rate, but were by far the most abrasive. Dysan and Verbatim Datalife were almost as low in errors, and much less abrasive. (I think he finally picked Datalife, but I'm not sure.) But the point is, watch out for Maxell! (And especially don't mix them with other disks -- a little of the abrasive remains on the heads and will rapidly destroy softer coatings.) -- Scott 11-Dec-82 15:15:02,1399;000000000000 Date: 11 Dec 82 15:15:02 EST (Sat) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: 8080 to 8086 translation To: Jerry E Pournelle , goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay Cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers Via: UCF-CS; 11 Dec 82 22:12-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 11 Dec 82 22:34-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 22:42-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 22:48-EST Jerry, As far as I know, Compupro has pasted together a CP/M-80 BIOS that will work with DRI assemblers which is probably the one you are referring to. However, they haven't done so yet for CP/M-86 (to my knowledge). Following is a quote from Compupro's Techcal manual for CP/M-86: REASSEMBLING THE CP/M 86 SYSTEM "To reassemble the CP/M 86 system (which consists of the loader and the CPM.SYS file, you will need the following: 1. Obviously you will need a working system. 2. A copy of ACT-86 from Sorcim.(*) 3. A working version of CP/M 80 with utilities. . . . ------------------------------------------ (*) ACT-86 can be obtained for $175 from (address withheld due to commercial restrictions of ARPA-land) or probably from your local computer dealer." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, that is some CHUTZPAH, in my humble opinion. Ben 11-Dec-82 17:20:00,1042;000000000000 Date: 11 Dec 1982 1920-EST From: Larry Seiler Subject: Re: how to get your name removed from the list. To: RMS.G.BANDY.MIT-OZ at Mit-Ml cc: Seiler at Mit-Xx Remailed-date: 11 Dec 1982 1921-EST Remailed-from: Larry Seiler Remailed-to: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Xx; 11 Dec 82 19:13-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 19:21-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 19:31-EST Andy, I agree that it is irritating to get all these "please remove me from the list messages." However, these people don't send their message to the list just to irritate you (and me). They do it becuase they don't know any better. So telling them about the XXX-REQUEST@HOST standard is reasonable and useful; indulging in gratuitous insults and threats is not. C'mon, Andy Scott Beals: we are people out here, not extensions of your computer terminal. And there was a time when even you did not know what you were doing. Larry Seiler PS - My apologies to the people on the list who didn't want to see this. ------- 11-Dec-82 17:31:00,1145;000000000000 Date: 11 December 1982 19:31-EST From: Sol Libes To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 20:41-EST Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 20:55-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 21:11-EST The CP/M-User Group of the Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey will have the following speakers at their January and February meetings and invites all interested CP/Mer's to attend. Friday, January 7th: TOPIC: "CP/M-Plus (Version 3.0). The features and enhancements of the new version of CP/M for single and multi-banked systems. Also, how to implement such systems. SPEAKER: Bruce Ratoff Friday, February 4th: TOPIC: "ZCPR-II & SYSLIB". A discussion of two of the more popular software packages in the SIG/M public domain software library. ZCPR is an enhanced replacement for the standard CP/M CCP. SYSLIB is a 3-Volume set of integrated macros for use with the Microsoft Macro- assembler. SPEAKER: Richard Conn, author of ZCPR and SYSLIB. The SIG/M software library is a function of the CP/M user group of ACG-NJ. The meetings are held at: Union County College, 1776 Raritan Rd, Scotch Plains NJ, beginning at 8PM. 11-Dec-82 22:53:00,955;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 1982 0053-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: [Bill Rizzi : re: how to get name removed from list] To: info-cpm at BRL cc: info-cpm-request at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 1:04-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 1:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 1:32-EST i totally agree with the following. --------------- Date: 11 Dec 1982 1620-PST From: Bill Rizzi I share your sentiments, but it appears the ditribution of this list is growing and there are a LOT of new users who aren't familiar with the conventions. I think some sort of reminder sent periodically would help, as well as a general guideline sent to each person who gets themselves on the list. Bill ------------------ info-cpm-request, are you listening? better yet, i could just mail out all of the info-cpm archives.... hmmmm....... -andy ------- 11-Dec-82 23:03:00,281;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 01:03-EST From: Herb Lin Subject: ms-dos To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 1:05-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 1:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 1:33-EST anyone out there care to compare MS/DOS to CPM-86? personal experience pls. 12-Dec-82 00:41:00,3591;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 02:41-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: 8080 to 8086 translation To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:46-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:57-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:38-EST I had not known of the restriction son the CP/M-86 BIOS, and thought in fact we were discussing the dual processor CP/M-80 BIOS. However, I understand what is happening. They GOT the BIOS from SORCIM. Digital Research for better or worse WILL NOT deal with individuals regarding CPM-86. I understand that their attitude was in large part responsible for IBM going to MSDOS; that may be wrong, but th sstory comes from one who ought to know. Godbout doesn't do software; they buy it from others (and to my certain knowledge no outfit is locked in with them, either; I saw Godbout hire someone from outside to do some of their software at COMDEX). They needed something that runs; SRCIM was willing to supply it; SORCIM naturally wrote it with their own assembler in mind. In my judgment, Digital has got a bit too big to care much for the users. They have taken the examples out of documents; they yhave taken the Pascal MT+86 documents, and the Speed Programming Package documents; and made them from not too good to absolutely horrid and unreadable; and they seem to be working at that sort of thing. They can, after all, make far more by selling to OEM's (which is where the money is). On the other hand, a sufficiently bright hacker could com eup with a well documented easy to use operating system that was upward compatible with MSDOS and CP/M (by means of translators perhaps) and offer some frienddliness to users, and some willingness to prepare sane documents understandalbe to users, and t ake over DR's place before Kildall knows what is happening; the SUPPLIERS and OEM's are not happy with having to supply documents (or buy them from Rodney Zaks)... So: some see problems, some see chalenges, and some see opportunities... Anyone thinking of doing an operating system for thed 8088 and 8086 machiens? I know lots of customers, and maybe the documents could be written better by a chimpanzee I know... Date: 11 Dec 82 15:15:02 EST (Sat) From: Ben Goldfarb To: Jerry E Pournelle , goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers Re: 8080 to 8086 translation Jerry, As far as I know, Compupro has pasted together a CP/M-80 BIOS that will work with DRI assemblers which is probably the one you are referring to. However, they haven't done so yet for CP/M-86 (to my knowledge). Following is a quote from Compupro's Techcal manual for CP/M-86: REASSEMBLING THE CP/M 86 SYSTEM "To reassemble the CP/M 86 system (which consists of the loader and the CPM.SYS file, you will need the following: 1. Obviously you will need a working system. 2. A copy of ACT-86 from Sorcim.(*) 3. A working version of CP/M 80 with utilities. . . . ------------------------------------------ (*) ACT-86 can be obtained for $175 from (address withheld due to commercial restrictions of ARPA-land) or probably from your local computer dealer." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, that is some CHUTZPAH, in my humble opinion. Ben 12-Dec-82 00:46:00,1158;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 02:46-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: 8080 to 8086 translation To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:45-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:56-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:37-EST I have CP/M 86 running with my dual processor 8085/8088; the program came from Godbout and runs as it came (my system uses all Godbout stuff, Interfacers and system support board); it automatically checks memory size. I know little about it; I am getting my own copy shortly (I have an older one I never used) and meanwhile am running with one from a chap from elsewhere (I'll errase it when my own comes; but I needed to check the operation of the 8087 board; on that more later). The CP/M 86 from CompuPro worked for me without any reassembly at all; I suppose I could dig out ACT if I had to but there was not need. Is it normal to have to reassamble to get working? Or are there special things you need to do? I agrtee one ought to have one's BIOS source, and I expect I'd be unhappy if I had to buy a special assembler just to work with my own... 12-Dec-82 00:53:00,662;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 02:53-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!! To: X.GYRO at Mit-Mc cc: CSTROM at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:49-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:57-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:39-EST Thank you. I had not known about Maxell disks. Query: does anyone have a program that will cause the heads to load although nothing is being read? This to allow use of head cleaning disks. I suppose this might be specific to the controller used? I have a CompuPro Disk One in two separate machines (8085/8088 and z-80). It's nt simple to get them to clean the heads, or is it? 12-Dec-82 00:58:00,698;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 02:58-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: CP/M plus compatibility, etc. To: CSTROM at Mit-Mc cc: bridger at Rand-Unix, INFO-CPM at BRL, Heiby.APSE at Hi-Multics, heiby at Hi-Multics Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:54-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 3:13-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:40-EST Semi-confirmed rumour department: Digital research has several pretty good hackers working on a 8088 C compiler. Problem is, aside from bundling in Kernighan and Ritchie (if they are smart) will you be able to survive Digital's documents, which will be written by their in house "Professional technical writers" (the quotes are from a HIGh DR official)?? 12-Dec-82 01:01:00,720;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 03:01-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: Floppy Disk Warning!!! To: CSTROM at Mit-Mc cc: Info-CPM at BRL, UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 3:22-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 3:29-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:41-EST CompuPro did a number of tests and concluded that DYSAN has least wear and is about as good as any for error-free performance. DYSAN buys their disks from Scotch (or else from same source as Scotch) but I am told that they do more polishing and quality checking. I am also told that they take all disks from same source, test them, and if they get any soft errors on one side but not other they put the disk out as single-sided... 12-Dec-82 02:44:00,1054;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 1982 at 0344-CST From: alt at Utexas-11 Subject: Reply to: ms-dos To: LIN at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Utexas-11; 12 Dec 82 4:56-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 5:11-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 5:21-EST I have no experience with CPM-86, but I am working with MS-DOS right now. I really dislike MS-DOS. The features it has are nice, but the simple stuff really drives me crazy. For example: you are running a program. you change disks. the next time ms-dos looks at the disk, it says ``gee, the file allocation table needs to be updated since the one I have here in core is different. UPDATE''. bash. I suppose one could live with that, but all of the calls to MS-DOS are really primitive compared to CPM-86 from what I have seen. If you have a choice, go with CPM-86. My opinion of ms-dos: wicked, evil, bad, nasty, get it away ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! The only reason I am using it is I am beeing paid lots of money to write a silly program. Good Luck, Howard. PS I'll never do it again. ------- 12-Dec-82 06:15:00,557;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 08:15-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: UNERASE Utility To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 8:10-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 8:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 8:48-EST I have uploaded to MIT-MC: AR23:CPM;UNERA 15ASM which is a simple utility which will recover a file that has been ERAsed as long as it has not been overwritten. It will automatically configure itself for CP/M 2.2 systems using the DPB; there are built-in sector translation tables which must be modified for pre 2.x systems. 12-Dec-82 07:13:49,854;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 82 07:13:49 EST (Sun) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: Floppy Disk Warning!!! To: Andrew Scott Beals Cc: info-micro at BRL, info-cpm at BRL Via: UCF-CS; 12 Dec 82 21:44-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 12 Dec 82 21:43-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 22:02-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 22:33-EST So many times we have seen testimonials about a particular brand of floppy disk; I'm certain yours will not be the last of them. Unfortunately, no one has ever been able to come up with any empirical data to substantiate his claim. I'm partial to Memorex because they're cheap and relatively error-free, albeit they sound terrible. Somewhere someone has tested various brands of diskettes -- I'd sure like to see the results posted to the net! Ben Goldfarb 12-Dec-82 07:33:29,1188;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 82 07:33:29 EST (Sun) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: 8080 to 8086 translation To: Jerry E Pournelle , goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay Cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers Via: UCF-CS; 12 Dec 82 21:45-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 12 Dec 82 21:44-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 22:02-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 22:36-EST I tend to agree that Godbout does a terrific job of supplying preconfigured CPM's for just about every combination of their hardware. Unfortunately, (but in some respects, fortunately), I augment the CompuPro stuff with a CCS 4-port serial board that I have modified to do what I want. I need a full-spec RS232 port to drive my Racal-Vadic, which I use for a RCP/M system part of the time. But the rest is all Godbout: 8085/8088, memory, Disk 1, and System Support 1. Thus, BIOS programming is necessary in my case. I like to use an interrupt- driven keyboard as well, and Sorcim does not provide for that. So I have to modify the BIOS to handle that. I am also a hacker/tinkerer and I love to play with CP/M. That's why I need to have an assembleable BIOS. Ben 12-Dec-82 09:22:00,2064;000000000000 Date: 12 December 1982 11:22-EST (Sunday) Sender: CARTER.RU-GREEN at BRL From: Bob Cc: RIZZI at Usc-Isib, info-cpm at BRL To: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: [Bill Rizzi : re: how to get name removed from list] Via: Rutgers; 12 Dec 82 11:18-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 11:27-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 11:31-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals i totally agree with the following. --------------- From: Bill Rizzi I think some sort of reminder sent periodically would help, as well as a general guideline sent to each person who gets themselves on the list. I certainly am not sure that I agree; the problem is irrelevant excess material sent to the entire list. The solution offered is sending more irrelevant material to the entire list. ------------------ info-cpm-request, are you listening? If there is one thing the poor maintainer does not deserve, it is sarcasm. better yet, i could just mail out all of the info-cpm archives.... hmmmm....... -andy Even as an @i(unattractive) joke, the threat to engage in this kind of destructive conduct troubles. It is contrary to the most important convention governing lists; that all net usage be governed by a spirit of cooperation and courtesy, particularly on the part of guest users. (Or does this user have a federal contract number?) This sounds more like bullying. The fact that the bully would have to spend six weeks saying M-X Split File in order to carry it out the threat might not be known to the novice user being threatened. If the occasional 'please remove' message bothers so much, why not spend a few moments hacking a function to search for messages containing those words and strip them from the Babyl file? Better still, do something constructive; hack COMSAT so it will redirect those messages to the REQUEST addressee automagically. _Bob 12-Dec-82 12:27:00,363;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: 12 December 1982 12:27 est From: Schauble.Multics at Mit-Multics Subject: CP/M C compilers To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Multics; 12 Dec 82 12:30-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 12:52-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 13:18-EST Do any of the CP/M C compilers implement typedef or structure assignments? Paul 12-Dec-82 16:17:26,605;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 1982 18:17:26-EST From: parker at Nrl-Css (Alan Parker) To: info-cpm at BRL Subject: QT SBC 2/4 Query Via: Nrl-Css; 12 Dec 82 18:15-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 18:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 18:25-EST I am putting together a system using the QT SBC 2/4 Z80 board. Could anyone comment on what would be a good choice for a disk controller for use with this board? Any knowledge of the availability of a CPM BIOS? Right now it looks like my best choice is to buy a decent controller and roll my own BIOS. Anyone have the QT disk controller? I don't think I trust them. 12-Dec-82 17:36:00,363;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 1982 at 1836-CST From: mknox at Utexas-11 Subject: C-compiler / Digital Research To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Utexas-11; 12 Dec 82 19:40-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 19:56-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 20:00-EST Don't know about CP/M-plus, but CP/M-68 has a C compiler, and at least some of the code is written in C, maybe all of it. ------- 12-Dec-82 17:46:00,545;000000000000 Date: 12 Dec 1982 1946-EST From: Andrew Scott Beals Subject: getting the heads to load. To: POURNE at Mit-Mc, pourne at Mit-Mc cc: X.GYRO at Mit-Mc, CSTROM at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, info-cpm at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 12-Dec-82 0526-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 20:16-EST Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 20:31-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 20:33-EST it's VERY controller specific. just boot on that drive, or select it. the head usually stays loaded long enough to clean the head(s). -andy ------- 12-Dec-82 23:55:00,2138;000000000000 Date: Sunday, 12 Dec 1982 22:55-PST Realname: Lauren Weinstein To: INFO-CPM at BRL Subject: HELP! From: lauren at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 15 Dec 82 0:32-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 1:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 1:53-EST Greetings. Well gang, the venerable old hardware on which I do all MARC development has finally undergone a major breakdown. It did this to me once before (over a year ago) but spontaneously recovered before I could track down the cause. This time I suspect I'm not going to be so "lucky". The primary symptom is that the Morrow M10 hard disk is not operating properly, but I have strong reasons to believe that something(s) much more fundamental are actually amiss. I am trying to avoid a full reformat of the M10 if at all possible. There is no money to buy new equipment. I no longer have access to a fast scope, and am getting close to burning out on trying to fix this monster by myself. MARC development has stopped (extremely close to distribution) until the hardware is back in a reasonable state -- it is impossible for me to continue work on my floppies, since MANY complex assemblies and compilations are involved -- they would simply be far too time consuming on floppies (the MARC source is highly modular, and I'm paying for that now!) I'm not so sure I trust the floppies right now, either. The (basic) hardware involved is: IMSAI mainframe (the one with all the pretty lights) 2 OLD microbyte 32K static memory boards (fry an egg on the heat sinks) Ithica Audio Z-80 (4Mhz) CPU Tarbell single-density disk controller (Persci 270 drives) Morrow M10 hard disk and controller Misc. I/O boards If there's anybody in the L.A. area who thinks they have a prayer of dealing with this equipment, and would care to (quickly!) help me get the system fully operational again, I would VERY MUCH appreciate it if you'd get in touch with me as soon as possible. Please contact me by netmail or at Vortex on (213) 645-7200. A free copy of the distributed MARC, and other goodies, to anyone who can help me with this problem! Thanks much. --Lauren-- 13-Dec-82 01:15:00,1588;000000000000 Date: 13 December 1982 03:15-EST From: Paul L Kelley Subject: MODEM796 To: INFO-CPM at BRL cc: W8SDZ at Mit-Mc, PLOUFF at Mit-Mc, STORK at Mit-Mc, ELIOT at Mit-Mc, CSTROM at Mit-Mc, FJW at Mit-Mc, RIZZI at Usc-Isib Via: Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 4:19-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 4:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 4:50-EST New files for MODEM796 are indicated with arrows below. MC CPM AR61 MODEM7 0 HIS794 796DIF 1 <-- MODEM794.HIS - MODEM796.HIS DIF file 0 MCNFG 794ASM 3 0 MCOSB 794ASM 2 0 MDM794 796DIF 2 <-- MODEM794.ASM - MODEM796.ASM DIF file 0 MNUM 794ASM 1 0 MODEM 768DOC 4 0 MODEM 794ASM 17 0 MODEM 794COM 4 0 MODEM 794HEX 9 0 MODEM 794HIS 4 0 MODEM 794INF 1 0 MODEM 796LIB 4 <-- New LIB file 0 MODEM 796MSG 1 <-- Message concerning new files 0 MODEM 796SET 2 <-- New SET file In a few days I will update the other files. The following describes the changes: ;12/12/82 Made the following changes: ; ; 1. Fixed initial timeout delay on receiving a file, ; 2. Revised XOFF/XON testing routines, ; 3. Revised routine to change user number to allow ; better checking of input errors, ; 4. Suppressed user 0 display after default drive message, ; 5. Added routines to memory buffer printer. ; P. L. Kelley ;12/12/82 Revised send file message in library and reformatted library. ; I. M. Hoff ;12/04/82 Added routines to change user number and display user number ; after default drive message. G. Kantor 13-Dec-82 05:25:00,296;000000000000 Date: 13 Dec 1982 0725-EST From: SHOLAR at Cmu-Cs-C Subject: Who has public LISP? To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 4:20-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 4:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 4:55-EST Can the person with the public domain LISP share it with the net? Thanks. ------- 13-Dec-82 08:22:00,671;000000000000 Date: 13 Dec 1982 (Monday) 1122-EDT From: PLATTS at Wharton-10 (Steve Platt) Subject: cpm 3.0 time stamp To: bridger at Rand-Unix cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Wharton-10; 15 Dec 82 2:51-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 3:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 3:32-EST ...around 6 months ago I read through some preliminary CPM 3.0 specs; the general impression I got was that one of every four FCB's (i.e. one of the four in each 128 byte (deblocked) sector) was to be used for time and date stamping. Sorry I don't remember any particular formats, but at least you'll know where to find the thing! (I believe it was also the *last* of the four fcb's..) -steve 13-Dec-82 10:38:00,352;000000000000 Date: 13 Dec 1982 10:38 PST From: ANYIWO.ES at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list To: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc cc: ANYIWO.ES at Parc-Maxc Via: Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 4:20-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 4:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 4:54-EST Please take my name off this distribution list. Thanks, Arthur Subject: Reply to: ms-dos To: alt at Utexas-11 cc: LIN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 6:28-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 7:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 8:17-EST Mark Dahmke, who is pretty smart, says "Going from MSDOS to CPM-86 is like going to CP/M from TRS-DOS." I am quoting him in about the March column. JEP 15-Dec-82 02:27:00,1405;000000000000 Date: 15 December 1982 04:27-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: somebody gotta DO something To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 6:28-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 7:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 8:26-EST It is another Night of the long knives; about fifty messages from mailer daemons and memo services and the like telling me that messages sent to various lists (mostly info-cpm) didn't get to recipients I never heard of. There must be a way to direct such mail to the list maintainer, or to a file that people could read if they want to see who on a list doesn't get their mail. This thing at 300 baud takes about half an hour to get rid of; because it has included headers, and GZ tells me there is no way for my magic header remover she wrote to scrub out included vias and remaileds and so forth; thus it fills the flinking screen EACH time and will not accept a "d" command until it has filled the screen; leaving one screeching in rage and wondering about the "convenience" of electronic mail. Surely there is a solution to this problem? And alas, I will now get back about five copies of T HIS message, filling disk space (some of the messages fail because people have exceeded their disk quota, so the mailer exceeds mine with dead mail?) ah well. What cannot be cured, and all that, but really, isn't someone out there smart? jep 15-Dec-82 06:15:20,540;000000000000 Date: 15 Dec 1982 6:15:20 CST (Wednesday) From: Mike Meyer Subject: Re: JRT Pascal released in SIG/M In-Reply-to: Your message of 10 Dec 82 16:46:33-EST (Fri) To: Rick Conn Cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Via: Okc-Unix; 15 Dec 82 7:20-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 8:10-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 8:47-EST What is the possibility of somebody uploading JRT Pascal to MC? It looks like the restrictions on it are the same (or less) than the restictions on software already on MC. To: Mike Meyer cc: Rick Conn , info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Subject: Re: JRT Pascal released in SIG/M Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:37-EST I really don't know about the possibility of an upload of JRT PASCAL to MC. I personally don't have the disk; just read about it in the news letter. Also, I have some questions about this action by SIG/M, in particular, if JRT was contacted for approval first. No mention was made about this being done. What's bothering me about this is that (1) JRT PASCAL is still being sold by JRT, even if it IS for $30, and (2) SIG/M (and PASCAL/Z UG) are nation-wide, even international, distribution systems. Such an action takes a LOT of potential sales away from JRT, and, if they didn't ask JRT permission to do this, I wonder if this is right, morally (i.e., is this PIRACY?). I'm aware of one occasion in which pirated software entered the SIG/M distribution system, but it was removed as soon as the error was discovered (I don't even remember the details right now). I'm sure the SIG/M people want to do what's right, but did they apply an interpretation to the JRT offer which was not intended (and did JRT know of their existance)? Hence, in a nutshell, I'd like to chat to SIG/M coordinator(s) first to see if this is truly the case (i.e., they asked JRT first) before saying anything else. Rick 15-Dec-82 14:17:58,884;000000000000 Date: 15 Dec 82 16:17:58-EST (Wed) From: Rick Conn To: blue at Nbs-Sdc cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Subject: Re: SIG/M Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:26-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:39-EST Yes, SIG/M is quite different from CPM/UG. It is a whole different set (close to 100 by now) of disks, all public domain software. They have a catalog to facilitate scanning and selec- tion of software, and a number of their better programs are on MIT-MC now. Lifeboat's (or whoever's) CPM/UG occasionally lifts SIG/M software for inclusion in their own disks. Among other things, SIG/M contains ZCPR1, 1.4, and 1.6, as well as SYSLIB and, soon, the new ZCPR2. SIG/M can be contacted at: SIG/M Box 97 Iselin, NJ 08830 Rick 15-Dec-82 18:37:00,559;000000000000 From: tekmdp!laurir.Tektronix at Rand-Relay To: tektronix!info-cpm at Mit-Mc Date: 15 Dec 1982 at 1737-PST (Wednesday) Subject: shortening CP/M files Via: tektronix; 21 Dec 82 19:27-PDT Via: Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 22:31-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 23:06-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 23:15-EST To shorten a CP/M file and free its extra blocks, just zero the unwanted disk indices in the FCB and do a CLOSE, then either RESET the disk or do a warm boot to force recomputation of the free block vector. -- Andrew Klossner (laurir.tektronix@rand-relay) 15-Dec-82 20:47:02,705;000000000000 Date: 15 Dec 82 22:47:02-EST (Wed) From: Rick Conn To: SHOLAR at Cmu-Cs-C cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Subject: Re: Who has public LISP? Via: Mit-Mc; 15 Dec 82 23:09-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 17:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 0:05-EST I have found a pointer to a public-domain LISP in SIG/M. It is in Vol 71 of SIG/M and Vol 14 of PASCAL/Z User's Group. The only note is that it is source to a LISP written in PASCAL/Z, is 26K long, and there is no COM file included. I don't have this disk or a PASCAL/Z compiler with which to compile it, but you may find something on one of the RBBSs or someone else may have ready access to this that I don't. Rick 15-Dec-82 23:35:15,443;000000000000 Date: 15 Dec 82 23:35:15 EST (Wed) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: Reply to: ms-dos To: Jerry E Pournelle , alt at Utexas-11 Cc: info-cpm at BRL, LIN at Mit-Mc Via: UCF-CS; 16 Dec 82 2:48-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 17 Dec 82 0:01-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 0:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 0:26-EST Is that good or bad, Jerry? I've never used either MSDOS or TRS-DOS. 16-Dec-82 00:16:00,539;000000000000 Date: 16 December 1982 02:16-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: HELP! To: lauren at Rand-Unix cc: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 2:32-EST Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 21:07-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 3:00-EST I have told Nor Singh of your plight. He knows about old Imsai systems. He doesn't have much money, and has twins to support, so how m uch work he could do for free I do not know. He lives in West LA. Anyway, I expect he will call you. I have told him you don't have much money either... 16-Dec-82 08:40:36,3259;000000000000 Date: 16 Dec 82 10:40:36-EST (Thu) From: Rick Conn To: allegra!phr at Ucb-C70 cc: rconn at BRL, info-micro at BRL, info-cpm at BRL Subject: ACG-NJ Info et al Via: Brl; 16 Dec 82 11:15-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 11:28-EST SIG/M is an interest group of the Amateur Computer Group of NJ, which meets at either Union County College or Rutgers here in NJ each month. They have several user's groups involved with the IBM-PC, VIC-20, North Star, and other computers, as well as interest groups in Pascal and CP/M (SIG/M). The ACG-NJ is probably the largest computer club in the US now. It numbers well over 1000 members, supports the SIG/M distribution system, and runs two remote bulletin board systems. To contact the RBBS's of ACG-NJ, the phone numbers are 201-272-1874 in Cranford and 201-932-3879 in Piscataway. To contact the ACG-NJ itself for membership applications and other information, the address is: Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey PO Box 319 South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 To contact SIG/M for obtaining disks and info, the ad- dress is: SIG/M Box 97 Iselin, NJ 08830 Other messages follow: Date: 23 Nov 82 7:39:31-EST (Tue) From: Rick Conn To: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Subject: [Sol Libes: SYSLIB, Copying Files, the ACG-NJ, and SIG/M] Sol has some good info to add to my message re SIG/M and the ACG-NJ. Thought you would like to see it. Rick ----- Forwarded message # 1: Date: 22 November 1982 22:47-EST From: Sol Libes Subject: SYSLIB, Copying Files, the ACG-NJ, and SIG/M To: rconn at BRL cc: SLIBES at MIT-MC, Bomberger at OFFICE-2 Dear Rick: Thanks for the plug for SIG/M and ACG-NJ. I wish to just correct you on one thing. One does not have to be a member of ACG-NJ to order or copy SIG/M disks. This service is offered to both members and non-members at no extra charge. Also, SIG/M has now released 85 volumes. A copy of our printed catalog is $1 or $1.50 via mail. It can be ordered from: SIG/M, Box 97, Iselin NJ 08830. ----- End of forwarded messages Date: 15 Dec 82 16:17:58-EST (Wed) From: Rick Conn To: blue at Nbs-Sdc cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Subject: Re: SIG/M Via: Brl; 15 Dec 82 15:26-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 15 Dec 82 21:39-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 3:18-EST Yes, SIG/M is quite different from CPM/UG. It is a whole different set (close to 100 by now) of disks, all public domain software. They have a catalog to facilitate scanning and selec- tion of software, and a number of their better programs are on MIT-MC now. Lifeboat's (or whoever's) CPM/UG occasionally lifts SIG/M software for inclusion in their own disks. Among other things, SIG/M contains ZCPR1, 1.4, and 1.6, as well as SYSLIB and, soon, the new ZCPR2. SIG/M can be contacted at: SIG/M Box 97 Iselin, NJ 08830 Rick 16-Dec-82 19:29:00,463;000000000000 Date: 16 December 1982 21:29-EST From: Eliot Scott Ramey Subject: returning blocks to the OS To: CAL at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 22:34-EST Via: Brl; 16 Dec 82 22:55-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 23:26-EST If MARC has this, GREAT! But if you implement it into CP/M, say goodbye to compatibility from system to system. How many people will get this fix? and how many will use it? -Eliot at Mit-DM 16-Dec-82 20:28:00,525;000000000000 Date: 16 December 1982 22:28-EST From: Richard S Hall Subject: 6502 disassembler To: dudley at Nadc cc: Info-CPM at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 15 Dec 1982 0920-EST () from dudley at Nadc Via: Mit-Mc; 16 Dec 82 22:35-EST Via: Brl; 16 Dec 82 22:55-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 23:27-EST Please do upload this file to the net!!! Unfortunately I am not the person to ask about how to get it onto the net, but it is something I would definately like to have. Thanks in advance, Rick 16-Dec-82 20:50:36,750;000000000000 Date: 16-Dec-82 19:50:36-PST (Thu) From: npois!ihlpb!dap1 at Ucb-C70 Message-Id: <8211170350.24235@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A24233; 16-Dec-82 19:50:37-PST (Thu) To: npois!ucbvax!info-cpm at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Ai; 16 Dec 82 23:22-EST Via: Brl; 16 Dec 82 23:44-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 16 Dec 82 23:49-EST I am replying off of my IBM which contains one single-sided and one double-sided Tandon drive. I have had the single-sided drive for about 6 Mos. and the double-sided for about 4 Mos. and haven't had a speck of trouble out of either one yet and even if I did at this point, I'd still rather have these at around $250 than subsidize the outlandish prices that IBM tries to charge. 17-Dec-82 00:14:00,449;000000000000 Date: 17 December 1982 02:14-EST From: Herb Lin Subject: source code? To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay cc: POURNE at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers In-reply-to: The message of 12 Dec 82 07:33:29 EST (Sun) from Ben Goldfarb Via: Mit-Mc; 17 Dec 82 2:35-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 3:08-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 3:20-EST just what parts of cp/m (any version) come with source code? 17-Dec-82 02:54:00,498;000000000000 Date: Friday, 17 December 1982 04:54-EST From: GREN.ELMO.MIT-OZ at BRL To: Info-Cpm%Brl at Mit-Mc Cc: Elmo.MIT-OZ at BRL Subject: Apple Cp/M Reply-to: Elmo%Mit-OZ at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 17 Dec 82 6:31-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 6:53-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 8:20-EST Does anyone have a version of MODEM that runs under Apple CP/M and supports the Novation Applecat II 212A option? Replies at least a Cc: to me as I am no longer on the list. Thanks- Eliot Elmo @ Mit-MC 17-Dec-82 04:16:00,410;000000000000 Date: 17 December 1982 06:16-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: Jonah or Jonos To: PGA.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 15 Dec 1982 1535-EST from PGA.MIT-OZ Via: Mit-Mc; 17 Dec 82 6:22-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 6:50-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 7:02-EST JONOS LTD. 714-871-1082 Good luck. They have some production limits. 17-Dec-82 10:42:00,702;000000000000 Date: 17 Dec 1982 1242-EST From: Bob Clements Sender: CLEMENTS at Bbna Subject: Any TECOs out there? To: Info-CPM at BRL Cc: Clements at Bbna Via: Bbna; 17 Dec 82 12:41-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 13:41-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 13:52-EST MINCE is great for what it does, but you can't escape into an underlying TECO. I find I need some TECO features a lot of the time, and wind up shipping files down to my TOPS20 and back just to do a little TECO-ing. Namely, general iteration with < ; > and number twiddling with QU+10UU QU\ and \UN commands. Before I sit down and write a CPM TECO, has anyone else out there already done it? Thanks, /Rcc ------- 17-Dec-82 10:57:52,602;000000000000 Date: 17 Dec 1982 10:57:52 CST (Friday) From: Mike Meyer Subject: LISP Benchmarks To: info-cpm at BRL Cc: mwm at Okc-Unix Via: Okc-Unix; 17 Dec 82 12:17-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 12:27-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 12:54-EST Does anybody out there have machine readable copies of the LISP benchmarks used by Jeffrey G. Bonar and Steven P. Levitan in their article `Three Microcomputer LISPs' in the Sept. '81 Byte? Conversely, if I type them in, is anybody else interested in them? Or do you have another favorite LISP benchmark I could get a copy of? thanx, Subject: Re: source code? To: LIN at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Rutgers; 17 Dec 82 13:08-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 13:51-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 14:07-EST In-Reply-To: Your message of 17-Dec-82 0214-EST If you're lucky, your OEM gave you source to your BIOS. Otherwise the rest is all in object or image form. Tony ------- 17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3329;000000000000 Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data? From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 22:07-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 22:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 22:52-EST I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right corner of the terminal screen. To do this it sends escape sequences to save the cursor, position it, and restore it. The characters are sent by BIOS calls to CONOUT. Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode. Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the standard ASCII characters. Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset the correct modes. It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal when it isn't ready to accept them. At least one gets lost; when the last- arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence. For example: 'ESC k p' -- 'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video ! My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's 8250 serial chip. I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters. NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data port the following sequence of events can and does occur: main program sends character to CONOUT CONOUT checks clear-to-send line: it's clear now clock interrupts saves registers clock routine sends a string of characters, filling the terminal buffer terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now restores registers & returns character sent to terminal (!!) returns to main program In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character. Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT that doesn't enable interrupts. (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before returning. This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking (like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line is clear. I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake! My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check out my questions. It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19. With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited very effectively. Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it! . *** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet *** 17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3268;000000000000 Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data? From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 18 Dec 82 0:00-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 0:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 0:41-EST I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right corner of the terminal screen. To do this it sends escape sequences to save the cursor, position it, and restore it. The characters are sent by BIOS calls to CONOUT. Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode. Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the standard ASCII characters. Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset the correct modes. It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal when it isn't ready to accept them. At least one gets lost; when the last- arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence. For example: 'ESC k p' -- 'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video ! My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's 8250 serial chip. I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters. NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data port the following sequence of events can and does occur: main program sends character to CONOUT CONOUT checks clear-to-send line: it's clear now clock interrupts saves registers clock routine sends a string of characters, filling the terminal buffer terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now restores registers & returns character sent to terminal (!!) returns to main program In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character. Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT that doesn't enable interrupts. (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before returning. This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking (like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line is clear. I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake! My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check out my questions. It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19. With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited very effectively. Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it! 17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3327;000000000000 Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data? From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 23:42-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 0:21-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 0:40-EST I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right corner of the terminal screen. To do this it sends escape sequences to save the cursor, position it, and restore it. The characters are sent by BIOS calls to CONOUT. Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode. Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the standard ASCII characters. Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset the correct modes. It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal when it isn't ready to accept them. At least one gets lost; when the last- arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence. For example: 'ESC k p' -- 'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video ! My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's 8250 serial chip. I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters. NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data port the following sequence of events can and does occur: main program sends character to CONOUT CONOUT checks clear-to-send line: it's clear now clock interrupts saves registers clock routine sends a string of characters, filling the terminal buffer terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now restores registers & returns character sent to terminal (!!) returns to main program In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character. Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT that doesn't enable interrupts. (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before returning. This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking (like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line is clear. I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake! My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check out my questions. It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19. With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited very effectively. Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it! . *** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet *** 17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3328;000000000000 Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data? From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 23:27-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 23:56-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 0:07-EST I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right corner of the terminal screen. To do this it sends escape sequences to save the cursor, position it, and restore it. The characters are sent by BIOS calls to CONOUT. Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode. Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the standard ASCII characters. Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset the correct modes. It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal when it isn't ready to accept them. At least one gets lost; when the last- arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence. For example: 'ESC k p' -- 'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video ! My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's 8250 serial chip. I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters. NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data port the following sequence of events can and does occur: main program sends character to CONOUT CONOUT checks clear-to-send line: it's clear now clock interrupts saves registers clock routine sends a string of characters, filling the terminal buffer terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now restores registers & returns character sent to terminal (!!) returns to main program In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character. Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT that doesn't enable interrupts. (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before returning. This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking (like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line is clear. I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake! My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check out my questions. It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19. With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited very effectively. Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it! . *** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet *** 17-Dec-82 20:07:00,3329;000000000000 Date: Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST To: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc Subject: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data? From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 17 Dec 82 23:07-EST Via: Brl; 17 Dec 82 23:23-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 17 Dec 82 23:36-EST I've been using a clock/calendar that interrupts once a second and calls a service routine that sends the current time to the bottom right corner of the terminal screen. To do this it sends escape sequences to save the cursor, position it, and restore it. The characters are sent by BIOS calls to CONOUT. Randomly, the terminal would print the time but then fail to restore the cursor, or switch into reverse video or some other mode. Things got worse with a new terminal rom (the Super19 ROM for the Heath H-19) running at 38.4K baud, because this rom has a host of new escape sequences for extra modes, some of which reinterprete the standard ASCII characters. Having the terminal suddenly in never-never land is a real pain; to recover you have to go into off-line mode, and reset the correct modes. It turn out that the BIOS is sending characters to the terminal when it isn't ready to accept them. At least one gets lost; when the last- arrived character is an Escape, and its successor is overtaken by another character, the terminal switches executes a faulty sequence. For example: 'ESC k p' -- 'ESC k' is restore cursor, 'p' is data If 'k' is overtaken, the terminal executes 'ESC p' = reverse video ! My CONOUT implements hardware handshaking, using the H-89's 8250 serial chip. I assumed that this, coupled with handshaking by the H-19 terminal, would prevent dropped characters. NOT SO!! -- because the interrupt routine uses the console output data port the following sequence of events can and does occur: main program sends character to CONOUT CONOUT checks clear-to-send line: it's clear now clock interrupts saves registers clock routine sends a string of characters, filling the terminal buffer terminal turns off clear-to-send line: not clear now restores registers & returns character sent to terminal (!!) returns to main program In other words, the real-time status of the CTS line changes from the time CONOUT reads the line to when it outputs the character. Solutions: (1) disable interrupts before reading CTS, enable after sending the character; have the clock routine use a private version of CONOUT that doesn't enable interrupts. (2) Set a flag on entry to CONOUT, reset it on exit; when flag is set have the clock routine poll CTS until clear before returning. This complexity wouldn't arise if the 8250 had on-chip handshaking (like the Z-80 SIO) and didn't send out a character until the CTS line is clear. I guess the moral is not to trust an interruptible handshake! My suspicions that the Super19 ROM was at fault were unfounded, and I appreciate the time Bob Todd at Extended Technology Systems took to check out my questions. It is indeed a high performance addition to the H-19. With hardware handshaking and 38.4K baud, text can be redisplayed and edited very effectively. Now I'm curious to see what the game writers can do with it! . *** Problem during mail receipt from Arpanet *** 18-Dec-82 08:07:00,438;000000000000 Date: 18 December 1982 10:07-EST From: Eric O Stork To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 10:07-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 10:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 10:33-EST Subject: Startling Statistics Department , Regarding the practice of people exchanging software, BUSINESS COMPUTER SYSTEMS for December 1982, page 11: , "... MicroPro figures it gets paid for only one software package in five...." 18-Dec-82 08:10:00,438;000000000000 Date: 18 December 1982 10:10-EST From: Eric O Stork To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 10:26-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 10:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 11:23-EST Subject: Startling Statistics Department , Regarding the practice of people exchanging software, BUSINESS COMPUTER SYSTEMS for December 1982, page 11: , "... MicroPro figures it gets paid for only one software package in five...." 18-Dec-82 10:02:00,354;000000000000 Date: 18 Dec 1982 at 1102-CST From: alt at Utexas-11 Subject: Startling Statistics Department To: STORK at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Utexas-11; 18 Dec 82 12:17-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 12:48-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 13:05-EST Yes, and look how much money they have made from just those!!! Howard Alt alt@utexas-11  ------- 18-Dec-82 12:08:00,544;000000000000 Date: 18 Dec 82 15:08-EDT (Sat) From: the Golux To: mwm at Okc-Unix cc: coar.umass at Udel-Relay, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay Subject: Steve Levitan & Jeff Bonar Via: UMASS-ECE; 18 Dec 82 22:23-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 23:35-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 23:49-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 0:01-EST These two gentlemen are on the net, so you might try talking to them directly. They are at our sister site. levitan@umass-coins bonar@umass-coins Good luck. ken coar@umass 18-Dec-82 12:08:00,545;000000000000 Date: 18 Dec 82 15:08-EDT (Sat) From: the Golux To: mwm at Okc-Unix cc: coar.umass at Udel-Relay, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay Subject: Steve Levitan & Jeff Bonar Via: UMASS-ECE; 18 Dec 82 22:19-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 23:19-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 23:47-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 23:59-EST These two gentlemen are on the net, so you might try talking to them directly. They are at our sister site. levitan@umass-coins bonar@umass-coins Good luck. ken coar@umass 18-Dec-82 19:03:00,947;000000000000 Date: 18 December 1982 21:03-EST From: Allan D Plehn Subject: 300/1200 baud (103/212a) modem for S-100 Bus To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 21:03-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 21:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 18 Dec 82 22:05-EST It won't be long now. PMMI expects to make their new 103/212A s-100 modem available in May. This info is right from Craig Brown, a principal in the company. It will have lots of nice features like ability to distinguish ringing and busy signals, DTMF (tone) dialing etc. The 300 baud part of the modem will not be the equal of their MM103 modem. That is, it won't use the expensive laser-trimmed filter components for the 300 baud section such as the MM-103 does. That would make it too expensive to be competitive. If anyone has any ideas in the way of features that they think should be included in the new modem let me know and I will pass the info along to Craig at PMMI. 18-Dec-82 21:33:00,292;000000000000 Date: 18 December 1982 23:33-EST From: Paul L Kelley Subject: MODEM796 To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 18 Dec 82 23:32-EST Via: Brl; 18 Dec 82 23:49-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 0:00-EST The MODEM7 files in AR61:CPM; on MIT-MC have been upgraded to version 796. 18-Dec-82 23:04:00,686;000000000000 Date: 18 December 1982 23:04 cst From: Weinstein.MK541 at Hi-Multics Subject: Osborne help needed! To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Hi-Multics; 19 Dec 82 0:06-EST Via: Brl; 19 Dec 82 0:20-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 0:53-EST I just got a Osborne double density computer and would like to install the BYE Program , SMODEM, XMODEM. I would greatly appreciate someone sending the source(for the OSBORNE) with any documentation . The discs that you send me will be returned within 1 week. Is there a info-osborne? Anyone have any other programs up on the Osborne worth discussing? Dennis Weinstein 8324 Kentucky Avenue North Minneapolis, MN 55445 thx Dennis. 19-Dec-82 06:36:00,946;000000000000 Date: 19 December 1982 08:36-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: 300/1200 baud (103/212a) modem for S-100 Bus To: PLEHN at Mit-Mc cc: Info-CPM at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 18 Dec 1982 21:03-EST from Allan D Plehn Via: Mit-Mc; 19 Dec 82 8:35-EST Via: Brl; 19 Dec 82 8:53-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 9:07-EST One of the nicest features of the MM-103 is that we can use it up to 600 baud routinely cross-country (and at 710 baud under ideal conditions.) I infer from your comment that this would no longer be possible with the new unit if the 103 circuitry is of lower quality. The MM-103 has become a de-facto standard for RCPM's and others interested in the dostribution of public domain CP/M software. It would be a real shame to ignore the installed user base by going off tangentially with a partially incompatible product if such is the case, though I can understand the cost considerations. 19-Dec-82 11:37:00,411;000000000000 Date: 19 Dec 1982 1337-EST From: PGA.MIT-OZ at Mit-Mc Subject: Re: LISP Benchmarks To: mwm at Okc-Unix cc: info-cpm at BRL In-Reply-To: Your message of 18-Dec-82 0411-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 19 Dec 82 13:38-EST Via: Brl; 19 Dec 82 13:51-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 14:22-EST I think I have the benchmarks around somewhere. I ran them on a Lisp Machine and on Maclisp for comparison. PHill ------- 19-Dec-82 18:41:00,759;000000000000 Date: 19 Dec 1982 (Sunday) 2141-EDT From: PLATTS at Wharton-10 (Steve Platt) Subject: TECO-like editors To: clements at Bbna cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Wharton-10; 19 Dec 82 21:39-EST Via: Brl; 19 Dec 82 21:57-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 19 Dec 82 22:19-EST Computer Design Labs of Trenton NJ puts out a product called Z-TEL, a fairly powerful TECO-like editor. It costs around $80, they advertise in (S-100) Microsystems and some other small journals. Computer Design Labs 342 Columbus Ave. Trenton NJ tech ques: 609-599-2146 orders: 800-458-3491 ext. 15 if you have any questions feel free to ask (me directly, unless you think they're important to the community). I have been using ~@it for a number of years. -steve 19-Dec-82 23:13:00,1446;000000000000 Date: 20 December 1982 01:13-EST From: Frank J Wancho Subject: [Pleasant: Warning messages from system mailers] To: INFO-CPM at BRL, INFO-MICRO at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 20 Dec 82 1:11-EST Via: Brl; 20 Dec 82 1:26-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 1:30-EST What Mel says below goes double for Keith and myself in our maintenance of INFO-MICRO and INFO-CPM. So, rather than steal Mel's message and put our names on it as our own, here is the original: Date: 19 Dec 1982 2114-EST From: Mel To: ProtocolS at RUTGERS Re: Warning messages from system mailers Hi Folks, Many times after you send a message to this list, one of the many system mailers that the message will pass through will inform you that the mail has yet to be delivered to a recipient on the list. These are just an informational messages. Most of the system mailers are pretty robust and will try several times before giving up. Please do not forward informational-type messages to me. The only time I need to know about a mailer error is when the entire message is returned to you with some indication that a system mailer has given up trying to deliver the mail. This generally happens when a recipient's mailbox has been removed (the user is no longer on the system), or the mailer suffered some sort of catastrophe. Please continue to let me know about hard errors. -thanks -Mel (ProtocolS Moderator) 20-Dec-82 06:23:00,790;000000000000 Date: 20 December 1982 08:23-EST From: Eric O Stork To: STORK at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 20 Dec 82 8:25-EST Via: Brl; 20 Dec 82 9:13-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 9:43-EST A week or so ago I distributed a compilation of comments I had received on the net in response to my question about the relative merits of 'portable' micros. After that distribution, I received some additional comments. I have updated the material that was distributed earlier. However, to avoid cluttering everyone's mailbox with a long file that the may not want, I'm sending this announcement of its availability. It can be FTPd from MIT-MC guest4;stork portbl or you can send me a message and I'll send it direct to your address. EOStork 12/20/82 (STORK at MIT-MC) 20-Dec-82 09:05:00,1385;000000000000 Date: 20 Dec 1982 1105-EST (Monday) From: dudley at Nadc Subject: CPM TECO To: clements at Bbna cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Nadc; 20 Dec 82 11:23-EST Via: Brl; 20 Dec 82 12:04-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 13:46-EST A much better TECO (i.e. more faithful to the DEC ver- sion) is called TED and available from: Small Systems Design P.O. Box 4596 Manchester, N.H. 03108 This version is about $150 but well worth it if you also use TECO on a DEC machine, since it will not screw you up with slightly changed commands. For example, the CDL Z-Tel uses 'y' for verify instead of 'v'. Obviously this could really screw you up if you do lots of things like: $$. ('y' is meant to be 'yank' the next buffer full.) Also the SSD TED has available a macro that does screen editing on a H89 (VT52) (simi- lar to the screen editor macro that DEC gives away). TED also comes with a macro to convert Intel 8080 mnemonics to Zilog mnemonics (I have modified mine to also do TDL (oops, I mean 'CDL') mnemonics as well). I can't say enough good about TED as an editor. I have no connection with SSD or CDL whatsoever. -- dud p.s. If you do write a TECO, please include regular expressions like Unix's 'ed' has. That's the only shortcoming TECO has. ------- 20-Dec-82 12:59:00,600;000000000000 Date: 20 Dec 1982 12:59 EST From: Thieret.WBST at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: Interrupting CONOUT with CONOUT => lost data? In-reply-to: bridger's message of Friday, 17 Dec 1982 19:07-PST To: bridger at Rand-Unix cc: INFO-CPM at BRL, H19-PEOPLE at Mit-Mc Via: Parc-Maxc; 20 Dec 82 12:55-EST Via: Brl; 20 Dec 82 14:03-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 14:28-EST Please tell me something about the Super19 ROM for the H-19 terminal. Where can I get one ? What does it do that is so great? How much is it? If it really helps (allows >9600 baud) I'm really interested. Thanks. Tracy Thieret 20-Dec-82 15:12:39,4496;000000000000 Date: 20 Dec 82 17:12:39-EST (Mon) From: Michael Muuss To: pourne at Mit-Mc, anton.Hcr at BRL, info-cpm at BRL cc: Gurus at BRL Subject: On UUCP <-> ARPA Mail Traffic Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 17:22-EST Via: Brl; 20 Dec 82 17:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 17:52-EST "The ARPANET is an operational DoD network and is not intended to compete with comparable commercial service. Accordingly, before ARPANET service is provided to any non-U.S. Government activity, it must be determined that adequate comercial service is not available." "The ARPANET is intended to be used solely for the conduct of or in support of official U.S. Government business. ...use of the ARPANET must not violate any applicable privacy laws." [pg. 12, ARPANET Directory] "If it is possible to gain access to the ARPANET from another network (gateway) ..., it is the respnosibility of that host to provide software protection which will permit only authorized ARPANET users to access the network." [pg 18, ARPANET Directory] The only reason we are able to provide any kind of relaying service AT ALL is because of a ambiuity of wording in the regulations governing the use of the ArpaNet. Basically, they say that outside users can not ORIGINATE traffic on the net, but say nothing about outsiders getting COPIES of things sent on the net. So, our mail gateway software implements this policy, with one special case. It works like this: *) Mail sent from ARPANET to any of our other networks is passed. *) Mail sent from any other network to ARPANET is rejected, with explanation. *) Mail sent from any other network to a MAIL FORWARDER on our machine is DELIVERED, regardless as to where it forwards to. Hence, mailing to ...!brl-bmd!info-cpm@mit-ai is rejected, as it asks for explicit routing to ARPANET, where as ...!brl-bmd!info-cpm is DELIVERED, because we automatically forward mail for that list. Believe me, I wish this was not so, but we have to play by the rules. Otherwise... "If corrective action is not taken in a reasonable time, DCA reserves the right to disconnect the host/terminal from the network." [pg 14, ARPANET Directory] If you wish to further discuss this issue, the proper forum is in the TCP-IP Digest ("The InterNet Digest"). It is fed into NETNEWS as net.tcp-ip; ArpaNet viewers may request direct mailing by sending a request to TCP-IP-REQUEST @ BRL Letters for publication in the digest should be sent to TCP-IP @ BRL Network Liaison and Host Administrator of BRL-BMD, -Mike Muuss PS: Attached is an automatic rejection notice, and a letter on this subject. ----- Forwarded message # 1: Date: 18 Dec 1982 22:13-EST (Sat) From: Memo Service (MMDF) To: anton@hcr Cc: Gurus@Brl-Bmd Subject: Illegal Address (pourne@mit-mc) Via: (decvax); 18 Dec 82 22:14-EST Your letter has been intercepted trying to access a restricted access host (e.g. an ARPANET host). A copy of your letter has been sent to the system administrators. The text of your letter follows. --------------- Returned Mail Follows -------------- >From hcr!anton Fri Dec 17 11:47:45 1982 remote from decvax Date: Fri Dec 17 11:01:15 1982 To: decvax!brl-bmd!pourne@mit-mc, info-cpm@BRL Subject: somebody gotta DO something Cc: rrg, utcsrgv!utcsstat!geoff, utzoo!henry I have just got a nasty letter from an automatic mailer telling me I have been reported for attempting to breach the security system of ARPAnet. All I did was reply to dave Flystra's note about sending all new members of the info-cpm list a idots guide to things like being taken off the list. I very much resent being accused of trying to break a secure system when all I did was use the unix mailer's 'r' command. Yes, Jerry, this junk about routing is getting pernicious. IT MUST BE STOPPED. Abouyt 30% of my network replies are getting sent back now. The only simple way out seems to be have ARPA and usenet seperate and have all of usenet that relays news FORCED to relay mail. System administrators won't like that, so we will probably need intelligent mailers, which means everyone has to keep their tables up to date. Sigh ! /anton aylward Human Computing Resources. Toronto. (p.s. I hope this DOES get through....) --------------- End of Returned Mail --------------- ----- End of forwarded messages 20-Dec-82 16:41:00,499;000000000000 Date: Monday, 20 December 1982 18:41-EST Sender: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL From: RG.JMTURN at Mit-Mc To: info-cpm at BRL Subject: CPM TECO In-reply-to: The message of 20 Dec 1982 1105-EST () from dudley at Nadc Via: Mit-Mc; 20 Dec 82 18:54-EST Via: Brl; 20 Dec 82 19:17-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 20 Dec 82 19:54-EST Please remember that Emacs is based around RMS's hacked version of TECO, and someone's DEC flavored CP/M TECO will not run Emacs without extensive modifications. James 20-Dec-82 22:08:00,585;000000000000 Date: 21 Dec 1982 0008-EST From: ELIOT at Mit-Dms (Eliot Scott Ramey) To: info-cpm at BRL Subject: VT180 & PIPMOD Message-id: <[MIT-DMS].253107> Via: Mit-Dms; 22 Dec 82 9:57-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 10:36-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 10:59-EST A friend is trying to get PIPMOD to work on a VT180. As far as he can tell, DEC did not document where the ports are. The information I need is, what should these following equates be set to: MDAT EQU ? MSTAT EQU ? RCV EQU ? RCVT EQU ? Any help at all will be greatly appreciated. HELP! -Eliot at Mit-DM 21-Dec-82 01:21:19,1610;000000000000 Date: 21 Dec 82 01:21:19 EST (Tue) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: source code? To: Herb Lin Cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: UCF-CS; 21 Dec 82 3:58-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 21 Dec 82 7:12-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 7:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 7:58-EST CP/M's standard distribution from DRI includes a BIOS source for MDS-80. DRI does not distribute source for the "proprietary modules" (i.e., CCP and BDOS) since these are the heart of the system. But the BIOS is a different matter because it is the interface to the hardware of the target system. If all we had to run CP/M on were out of the box TRS-80's or the like, then we wouldn't even need BIOS source. Even the systems of a particular hardware merchant come in different flavors, so rather than try to cover all possible contingencies in a single BIOS (which is what Heath has tried to do), the BIOS distributed with such systems usually is a "greatest common subset" variety; the source is necessary if the user is to do any customization or add any new hardware. Some CP/M's like the old Lifeboat-Northstar CP/M are distributed BIOS source for only the portion not related to disk I/O -- I guess they think there is something about disk drivers that is magic and needs to be protected. Think of what one would have to go through if each time he added a new component to his system, say a new serial interface, he had to go to the place where he bought his copy of CP/M and ask the proprietor for an update with the new hardware routines! Ben 21-Dec-82 09:39:10,489;000000000000 Date: 21-Dec-82 08:39:10-PST (Tue) From: helge at Ucb-C70 (Helge Skrivervik) Subject: address search: Paul Kelly @ lincoln Lab Message-Id: <8211211639.28849@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A28845; 21-Dec-82 08:39:17-PST (Tue) To: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 11:39-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 12:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 12:33-EST Anyone who knows the mail address of Paul Kelly at Lincoln Lab?? Thanx -helge 21-Dec-82 12:02:00,693;000000000000 Date: 21 Dec 1982 1102-PST From: Dick Subject: USER # in BIOS To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Usc-Eclb; 21 Dec 82 14:00-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 14:51-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 16:06-EST I ahve seen this mentioned a couple times, and have seen the problem on all the CP/M system I have used. When working in other that USER 0 if a warm boot is done, you get forced back to USER 0. Could any of the CP/M wizards please show a good method to have the bios handle the USER #, in the warmboot or disksel area I assume. Does it simply entail grabbing the USER # from the page zero location and saving it, then restoring on warmboot? Examples please...Thanks.. ------- 21-Dec-82 12:31:16,309;000000000000 Date: 21-Dec-82 12:31:16 EST (Tuesday) From: lwilliams.HENR at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take my name off this distribution list To: INFO-CPM at BRL cc: lwilliams at Parc-Maxc Via: Parc-Maxc; 21 Dec 82 13:17-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 14:38-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 16:02-EST Thanks. laurin 21-Dec-82 16:55:00,414;000000000000 Date: 21 Dec 1982 1555-PST Sender: TBOWERMAN at Office-10 Subject: Re: address search: Paul Kelly @ lincoln Lab From: TBOWERMAN at Office-10 To: helge at Ucb-C70 Cc: info-cpm at Mit-Mc Message-ID: <[OFFICE-10]21-Dec-82 15:55:57.TBOWERMAN> In-Reply-To: <8211211639.28849@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Via: Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 18:54-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 19:05-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 19:11-EST GP82@LL 21-Dec-82 17:31:00,804;000000000000 Date: Tuesday, 21 December 1982 19:31-EST Sender: EB.MIT-OZ at BRL From: EB at Mit-Mc To: Michael Muuss Cc: anton.Hcr at BRL, Gurus at BRL, pourne at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at Mit-Mc Subject: On UUCP <-> ARPA Mail Traffic In-reply-to: The message of 20 Dec 82 17:12:39-EST (Mon) from Michael Muuss Via: Mit-Mc; 21 Dec 82 19:33-EST Via: Brl; 21 Dec 82 19:57-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 21 Dec 82 20:06-EST This message offers no excuse at all for the obnoxious feature whereby the automatic rejection mechanism sends a copy of a message to the system administrators. Once they have set up an automatic policy system administrators have no need and certainly no right to get automatic copies of mail that is not addressed to them; that is a gross invasion of privacy. 21-Dec-82 22:52:07,1384;000000000000 Date: 22 Dec 82 0:52:07-EST (Wed) From: Rick Conn To: Dick cc: info-cpm at BRL Subject: Re: USER # in BIOS Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 1:05-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 1:22-EST Dick, The problem you describe lies in the Warm Boot routine within the BIOS. Whenever the CCP is entered via either the Warm or Cold Boot routines in the BIOS, the user/disk flag is carried to it in the C register. I do not have the problem you describe. Warm Boots return me to the user/disk I was logged into. My BIOS code in the Warm and Cold Boots which does this is: COLD BOOT: cbdisk equ 0 ;enter user 0 (high 4 bits), disk A ; (low 4 bits) on Cold Boot (Startup) cdisk equ 4H ;address of user/disk flag on Page 0 ... mvi a,cbdisk ;select default user/disk sta cdisk ;set user/disk flag ... jmp gocpm WARM BOOT: ... jmp gocpm ;Warm Boot reloads CCP and BDOS GOCPM: ... ;Init: ... ; JMP at 0, JMP at 5, others lda cdisk ;get current user/disk flag mov c,a ;... in C for CCP entry ... jmp ccp ;enter CCP with user/disk in C In this type of environment, I have the flexibility of setting cbdisk to anything I want, such as 21H to come up in user 2 on drive B when I cold boot or 0A0H to come up in user 10 on drive A on cold boot. Hope this answers your question. Rick 21-Dec-82 23:04:00,573;000000000000 Date: 22 December 1982 01:04-EST From: "James Lewis Bean, Jr." Subject: Any TECOs out there? To: CLEMENTS at Bbna cc: INFO-CPM at Mit-Mc In-reply-to: The message of 17 Dec 1982 1242-EST from Bob Clements Via: Mit-Mc; 22 Dec 82 1:06-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 1:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 1:37-EST There was an editor phoenix sofware associates ( I don't remember the name) that claimed to be very teco like with multiple buffers, and command macros...Call lifeboat they used to sell it. lewis bean at mit-mc 22-Dec-82 01:00:10,3649;000000000000 Date: 22 Dec 82 3:00:10-EST (Wed) From: Rick Conn To: info-cpm at BRL, info-micro at BRL Subject: ZCPR2 Release Schedule and Other Info Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 3:23-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 3:39-EST Hi -- With all the interest expressed in ZCPR2 over the past few months, I thought you would be interested in what the current release schedule is. ZCPR2 is rapidly nearing completion, and it currently looks like the following schedule of events will be realized: 31 Dec -- Release of Draft Documentation on ZCPR2 and its utilities on MIT-MC 1-9 Jan -- Final Testing of Utilities; ZCPR2 has already been thoroughly tested as of 22 Dec, and one more minor mod is planned followed by a few more tests, but the current bottle- neck is with the utilities 10 Jan -- Release of all selected utilities and ZCPR2 itself to MIT-MC and SIG/M (note: it will take SIG/M a little while to place ZCPR2 into the system) 11-14 Jan -- Fielding initial questions from INFO-CPM 21-23 Jan -- CPM 83 Conference in San Francisco; I'll be making a presentation on ZCPR2 as part of Sol Libes session on Public Domain Software 27 Jan -- (still in planning stages and subject to cancellation) Micro Conf at Ft Leavenworth, KS, where I may be making another presentation on ZCPR2, SYSLIB, ARPA Net Communication via Micros, and other topics 4 Feb -- Presentation on ZCPR2 and SYSLIB at ACG-NJ SIG/M meeting Status: 1. ZCPR2 itself is up and running very nicely now at all the Beta Test Sites. One very minor mod is planned, but no problem at all is expected wrt the release date. 2. ZCPR2 utilities will be undergoing Beta Test- ing right up to the release. Most are performing as they should be so far, and no problem is anticipated in meeting the release date on approx 90% of the utilities. The other 10% are still un- dergoing some design changes and bug fixes. There will probably be about 30 utility programs released with ZCPR2. 3. A Draft of the documentation will be released for those interested in early information on ZCPR2 and for com- ments from those who wish to in case they have some major hangup about an aspect of the documentation before the release. This will hopefully catch some problems which may be faced by people seeing ZCPR2 the first time before the actual release is done. Four manuals and a series of Help files on ZCPR2 are currently planned. The Concepts Manual (currently at 50+ pages) covers basic ZCPR2 ideas and explains the philosophy of use of ZCPR2 and the Installation Manual (currently at 20+ pages) gives detailed installation instructions and examples. Both of these manuals are well along. The other two, namely the Rationale and User's Guide, are less well along but I hope they will also be ready on time. Those interested in obtaining ZCPR2 or more information on ZCPR2 are invited to subscribe to INFO-CPM. Due to the nature of INFO-MICRO, further release data to it is not planned. Rick 22-Dec-82 02:55:00,1006;000000000000 Date: 22 Dec 82 02:55:00 EST (Wed) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Cleaning disk drive heads To: info-cpm at BRL Via: UCF-CS; 22 Dec 82 3:39-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 22 Dec 82 5:04-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 5:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 5:32-EST Recently, Jerry asked for info about how to load the heads on his disk drive in order to clean them. While I don't have a program that does it, it got me thinking about another rumor versus fact brouhaha that has not yet been clarified to my satisfaction: is it necessary or desirable to clean heads? I have heard both sides of the story: 1) the oxide buildup on floppy disk heads is harmful, causing excess wear and unreliable data transfers, and 2) cleaning the heads is an excessively abrasive procedure that shortens their life. I'd like to get some opinions on the above, if not hard data. Ben Goldfarb ARPA: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay uucp: ...!duke!ucf-cs!goldfarb 22-Dec-82 08:35:00,1047;000000000000 Date: 22 Dec 1982 08:35 PST From: Eldridge.ES at Parc-Maxc Subject: Re: USER # in BIOS In-reply-to: Mead's message of 21 Dec 1982 1102-PST To: Dick cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Parc-Maxc; 22 Dec 82 11:40-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 12:17-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 12:50-EST The error you describe is common to many CBIOS implementations and is an annoying bug. The proper solution is to save the value at location 4 and use it as the currently logged drive on a warm boot. Location 4 contains both the current logged-in drive and the user number. The warm boot routine should save location 4, read in the CCP, then put the saved location 4 value into the C reg and jump to the CCP. Another idea I have been toying with is to run a checksum on the CCP whenever a warm boot is requested, and only load the CCP if it has been over- written. This would have the advantage that ^C would log-in a new disk even if the disk did not have CP/M on it (providing, of course, that the CCP was still intact). George 22-Dec-82 09:29:00,617;000000000000 Date: 22 December 1982 1129-EST (Wednesday) From: Ed.DeHart at Cmu-Cs-A To: Info-CPM at BRL Subject: After Jan. 1 Message-Id: <22Dec82 112902 ED80@CMU-CS-A> Via: Cmu-Cs-A; 22 Dec 82 11:22-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 11:48-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 12:13-EST I haven't noticed any plans for moving the Info-CP/M software archive off of MIT-MC. I just read a message about the new ZCPR which will be available on MIT-MC after Jan. 1. Is MIT-MC going to be on the net? Is this a TCP site? The last thing that I had heard was that the ITS systems would not be on the net as TCP hosts. Ed DeHart 22-Dec-82 09:59:10,308;000000000000 Date: 22-Dec-82 9:59:10 PST (Wednesday) From: Hankins at Parc-Maxc Subject: Please take my name also off this distribution list To: INFO-CPM at BRL cc: Hankins at Parc-Maxc Via: Parc-Maxc; 22 Dec 82 12:54-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 14:09-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 14:14-EST thanks brenda 22-Dec-82 10:35:00,1049;000000000000 Date: 22 Dec 1982 0935-PST Sender: BILLW at Sri-Kl Subject: Re: Cleaning disk drive heads From: BILLW at Sri-Kl To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay Cc: info-cpm at BRL Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]22-Dec-82 09:35:06.BILLW> In-Reply-To: Your message of 22 Dec 82 02:55:00 EST (Wed) Via: Sri-Kl; 22 Dec 82 12:30-EST Via: Brl; 22 Dec 82 13:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 22 Dec 82 13:31-EST There was an article on disk drive care in the latest (dec?) issue of KILOBAUD microcomputing magazine. It seems that: a) It is a good idea to clean your heads and worm gears and things every once in a while from a preformance point fo view... This is why head cleaning kits exist. Their manufacturers say heads should be cleaned every couple weeks. b) About 80% of disk drives returned to xxx for repairs were broken by users who were atempting to clean/do other preventitive maintainance on them. This is why disk manufacturers recomend against head cleaning. Head cleaning does not usually involve any abrasives. BillW 23-Dec-82 00:08:00,545;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 02:08-EST From: Herb Lin Subject: getting rid of unwanted msgs? To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 2:08-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 2:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 2:45-EST there was a discussion of how to get rid of useless header lines. The answer was, Use BABYL. I did, and it's great. now, a harder question: how can I get BABYL to (a) get rid of msgs from COMSAT, and (b) just display the wanted header lines, and then pause to either delete or continue. many thanks. 23-Dec-82 00:59:00,353;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 02:59-EST From: Herb Lin Subject: ZCPR? To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 2:58-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 3:10-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 3:58-EST given the name of zcpr, this question may be silly, or just maybe hopeful. will zcpr run on an 8085? (as in an 8085/8088 dual processor board) 23-Dec-82 01:02:00,681;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 03:02-EST From: Paul L Kelley Subject: TELL To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 3:01-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 3:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 3:59-EST The file TELL.ASM is in AR11:CPM; on MIT-MC as TELL ASM. It was written by Howard Moulton and to quote the author: "This is a utility that tells you where your CCP starts, what your BDOS entry address is, and where your CBIOS jump table begins, as well as other useful info." The "other useful info" is the list of addresses in the jump table together with a very brief description of each routine's purpose. Makes nice hard copy for reference use. 23-Dec-82 01:02:00,954;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 03:02-EST From: Ken Harrenstien Subject: [Ed.DeHart: After Jan. 1] To: Info-CPM at BRL cc: GZ at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 3:01-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 3:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 4:00-EST Date: 22 December 1982 1129-EST (Wednesday) From: Ed.DeHart at Cmu-Cs-A To: Info-CPM at BRL Re: After Jan. 1 I haven't noticed any plans for moving the Info-CP/M software archive off of MIT-MC. I just read a message about the new ZCPR which will be available on MIT-MC after Jan. 1. Is MIT-MC going to be on the net? Is this a TCP site? The last thing that I had heard was that the ITS systems would not be on the net as TCP hosts. Ed DeHart MIT-MC (and the other ITS systems) will be on the net, as TCP hosts. I have been doing the software for this (and announced it several times). Where did you hear that this was not true? --Ken 23-Dec-82 02:22:00,874;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 04:22-EST From: Gail Zacharias Subject: getting rid of unwanted msgs? To: LIN at Mit-Mc cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 4:21-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 4:47-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 4:55-EST You can control COMSAT messages by specifying the "R:" or "REGISTERED:" field when sending mail from Babyl. This is followed by one letter: A means COMSAT will send receipts when mail is sent, queued or failed, F means send receipts for failed mail only, N means return no receipts at all. By default, COMSAT sends receipts for queued or failed mail (sort of in between A and F). Note that this only applies to COMSAT (ITS mailer) receipts. You might still get rejection or queued notices from other mailers. Also it only works for mail sent from ITS, since COMSAT will not parse foreign headers for this field. 23-Dec-82 03:38:00,986;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 05:38-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: On UUCP <-> ARPA Mail Traffic To: mike at BRL cc: POURNE at Mit-Mc, anton.Hcr at BRL, Gurus at BRL, Info-Cpm at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 21 Dec 1982 19:31-EST from EB Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 5:37-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 5:53-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 6:02-EST If what you say is true then why are CSNET people allowed to send and receive mail to Arpanet? It seems to me that Arpa has benefited GREATLY from information supplied by non-Arpa people through these gateways. Someone needs to re-examine the "official position". That automatic gateway rejection shouldn't be there. It's not on UCB-C70. It seems to me that this is one person's interpretation of the regulations. If you want to take them seriously, then shut down the UCB-C70 and CSNET gateways. But if you do, you'll shut off a valuable resource. I don't think the management would appreciate that at all. 23-Dec-82 08:46:20,1857;000000000000 Date: 23 Dec 82 08:46:20 EST (Thu) From: Ben Goldfarb Subject: Re: ZCPR? To: Herb Lin Cc: info-cpm at BRL Via: UCF-CS; 23 Dec 82 20:45-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 23 Dec 82 20:44-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 21:08-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 21:20-EST ZCPR makes use of Z80 relative jumps, LDIR's, and some other assorted Z80 instructions which won't execute on the 8085. As soon as I installed the Godbout dual processor in my system, I realized how much I relied on ZCPR, so I hacked it to run on the 8085. Since the program assembles under MAC, the authors used macros to generate the Z80 opcodes. I merely added a block move subroutine and hacked the macros to generate 8085 instructions. This results in an increase in size primarily because of the tradeoff between two byte JR's and three byte JMP's, so I had to eliminate some of the features, namely JUMP and Go, plus optional hexadecimal constants. I had never used these features, so there wasn't any problem. The big advantage of ZCPR, in my opinion, is that executable files can reside in a "home" directory which will be searched no matter where you are currently logged in (i.e., drive and user number). Beyond that, the expanded features are nice conveniences that replace some transient utilities and make life with CP/M systems generally more enjoyable. As I mentioned above, the hack is simple, but if anyone wants to save the trouble of doing it themselves, I'd be glad to supply it to them if they send me a self-addressed, stamped envelope, along with a disk. If you notify me by mail, I'll give you the address. Alternatively, someone could upload it to MC, but I can't FTP from here. Ben Goldfarb ARPA: goldfarb.ucf-cs @ UDel-Relay uucp: ...!duke!ucf-cs!goldfarb 23-Dec-82 10:20:00,1497;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 12:20-EST From: Stephen C Hill Subject: CP/M Systems Programming books To: FJW at Mit-Mc, RCONN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 12:17-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 13:04-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 13:16-EST I have just picked up a very good book that describes CP/M from the systems programmer's viewpoint. It is called: Mastering CP/M by Alan R. Miller published by Sybex ISBN 0-89588-068-7 $15.95 at my local B. Dalton's I have been looking for a book about CP/M that goes into much greater detail than " To copy a file, use PIP a:=file.com". I have sought information about the guts of the operating system, with hints about writing (or at least modifying) a BIOS, etc. This book seems to address that problem. Chapters are: 1. CP/M Organization and Operation 2. Duplicating and Altering CP/M Disks 3. Adding Features to BIOS 4. Beginning a Macro Library 5. Using BDOS for Nondisk Operations 6. Reading Disk Files With BDOS 7. Writing Disk Files With BDOS 8. The CP/M Disk Directory Appendices with the ubiqutous ASCII character set, 64K memory map, 8080 and Z80 instruction sets, and a very handy, one-page (albeit printed on two pages) listing of all of the BDOS calls, with requisite register usage. This may not be as replete with arcane anecdotes as an IBM manual, but it is very readable, presents useful projects (like implementing the IOBYTE) and generally is a good book. 23-Dec-82 11:46:00,681;000000000000 Date: 23 Dec 1982 1046-PST Sender: BILLW at Sri-Kl Subject: Re: getting rid of unwanted msgs? From: BILLW at Sri-Kl To: LIN at Mit-Mc Cc: info-cpm at BRL Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]23-Dec-82 10:46:10.BILLW> In-Reply-To: Your message of 23 December 1982 02:08-EST Via: Sri-Kl; 23 Dec 82 13:55-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 14:33-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 15:04-EST for tenex/tops20 sites, HERMES from BBN also alows you to get rid of unwanted header lines, and you can say things like: >delete .:lastmessage/from mailer A generally wonderful piece of software, as long as youre not paying for your computer time... (HERMES is available frlom BBN, somehow) BillW 23-Dec-82 15:25:00,613;000000000000 Date: Thursday, 23 December 1982 17:25-EST Sender: RG.JMTURN.MIT-OZ at BRL From: RG.JMTURN at Mit-Mc To: INFO-CPM at BRL Subject: [Ed.DeHart: After Jan. 1] Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 17:27-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 17:55-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 18:06-EST In theory, OZ has been taking over some of the ITS archives in SRC:. How much data are we talking about? If its reasonable, it might go in SRC: (or some such); subject to approval by the powers that be. OZ should go on the net sometime soon (of course, this has been said for 3 months, so caveat emptor...) James 23-Dec-82 16:10:00,1063;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 18:10-EST From: Michael C Adler Subject: SPELL v2.0 To: Info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Ml; 23 Dec 82 18:09-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 18:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 18:49-EST A new verion of SPELL, the utility designed to locate spelling errors in documents, is complete. Aside from a number of bug fixes, it allows more flexible use of user dictionaries (specified on the command line now). Thanks to those who suggested modifications! If you already have SPELL, you won't need to retrieve many files, as the dictionary has not changed. New files are: MIT-MC:AR59:CPM; SPELL 20COM <-- executable version of SPELL SPELL 20DOC <-- new documentation SPELL 20HEX <-- hex version of SPELL 20COM, generated by the CPM;HEXIFY program at MC. SPELL 20MAC <-- SPELL source code. All of the other files remain unchanged. Comments, complaints, bug reports gladly accepted. -Michael P.S. For those of you who are curious, the dictionary stores about 40,000 words in 56K of memory. 23-Dec-82 20:35:00,572;000000000000 Date: 23 December 1982 22:35-EST From: Leor Zolman Subject: Osborne I/O ports To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 23 Dec 82 22:32-EST Via: Brl; 23 Dec 82 22:57-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 23 Dec 82 23:12-EST Hi-- A friend of mine has an Osborne and is going ape trying to figure out how the I/O ports do their thing (with regards to parity stripping, etc.). If there's anyone out there who can offer help, please call Duncan Apthorp, (617) 625-9135. I thought I saw something about an Osborne mailing list, but I don't know where it is...thanks, -leor 24-Dec-82 01:15:00,789;000000000000 Date: 24 December 1982 03:15-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: ZCPR? To: goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay cc: LIN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 23 Dec 82 08:46:20 EST (Thu) from Ben Goldfarb Via: Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 3:12-EST Via: Brl; 24 Dec 82 3:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 3:45-EST One of these days I will have to send a disk. Meantime I talkeed to Godbout and that BIOS may be available soon. Query: do you know precisely how I can download from ITS? That is, I have a system (MITE) trhat will capture files, even binary files; but I do not know what commands will cause the ITS systems to begin sending them in a continuous stream. Perhaps you are the wrong one to ask? Best JEP 24-Dec-82 02:43:00,652;000000000000 Date: 24 December 1982 04:43-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: aaarrrrgghhh! To: POURNE at Mit-Mc cc: LIN at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL, goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 1982 03:15-EST from Jerry E Pournelle Via: Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 4:39-EST Via: Brl; 24 Dec 82 5:01-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 5:05-EST My apologies to the info-cpm list. I am unused to babyl and apparently I am not always able to seen when copies of stuff go to the whole list when they were intended only for a couple of people privately. ah, well. maybe I will learn. thanks for the patience, jep 24-Dec-82 07:45:00,1107;000000000000 Date: 24 Dec 1982 0645-PST From: LHILL at Usc-Eclb Subject: New user To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Usc-Eclb; 24 Dec 82 9:38-EST Via: Brl; 24 Dec 82 9:58-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 10:02-EST As a new CP/M user and new to ARPANET I need a little help. I have all the MIT-MC directories obtained with FTP - and the expanse in remarkable. I would like to have (wouldn't we all) a good editor-assembler, disassembler, wordprocesser as a minimum starting set. Are there any good ones in the list. Knowing the names (and MIT devices) won't ,however do it for me as I don't know how to download non-ASCII files. I am a long time TRS80 MOD I user with LDOS system. This has an excellant comm pgm 'LCOMM' but it can only handle ASCII. I have downloaded .BIN files from ComPuServe with the program MNETA (written by, I believe, Les Mikespell). I have MMODEM7 but have not as yet used it as my MAX80 has just arrived. Would someone please recommend some good programs to start with and give me instructions as to how to download .COM files. Lem Hill LHILL at USC-ECLB ------- 24-Dec-82 08:34:00,698;000000000000 Date: 24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri) From: the Golux To: info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay cc: coar.umass at Udel-Relay Subject: VT180 Via: UMASS-ECE; 24 Dec 82 20:47-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 20:56-EST Via: Brl; 24 Dec 82 21:32-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 21:44-EST Does anyone out there use a DEC VT180? And, if so, would they care to express opinions on it? I have heard about them, but no details; and it would be a good thing for me (if they are any good), since I already have a VT100... Any opinions sent to me will be consolidated and sent here if there is enough in the way of responses. Thanx. ken coar.umass@udel-relay 24-Dec-82 08:34:00,698;000000000000 Date: 24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri) From: the Golux To: info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay cc: coar.umass at Udel-Relay Subject: VT180 Via: UMASS-ECE; 24 Dec 82 20:51-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 20:57-EST Via: Brl; 24 Dec 82 21:32-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 21:45-EST Does anyone out there use a DEC VT180? And, if so, would they care to express opinions on it? I have heard about them, but no details; and it would be a good thing for me (if they are any good), since I already have a VT100... Any opinions sent to me will be consolidated and sent here if there is enough in the way of responses. Thanx. ken coar.umass@udel-relay 24-Dec-82 19:09:00,502;000000000000 Date: 24 December 1982 21:09-EST (Friday) From: James Mazer To: Stephen C Hill Cc: info-cpm at BRL Reply-to: MAZE at Mit-Mc Subject: CP/M Systems Programming books In-reply-to: The message of 23 Dec 1982 12:20-EST from Stephen C Hill Via: Mit-Mc; 24 Dec 82 21:07-EST Via: Brl; 24 Dec 82 21:32-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 24 Dec 82 21:47-EST Has anyone seen a similar book (similar to Mastering CP/M) for CP/M-86 or MS-DOS? /Jamie 25-Dec-82 12:54:26,412;000000000000 Date: 25 Dec 82 14:54:26-EST (Sat) From: Herb Hamilton (WSMR) To: Info-cpm at BRL cc: hh at BRL Subject: Need Utility Via: Brl; 25 Dec 82 15:22-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 25 Dec 82 15:27-EST We have a need for a utility, program or whatever which will convert a file created under TRS-DOS to CPM 2.2 format. Please respond to me not the entire list. Tnx Herb Hamilton 26-Dec-82 00:25:00,1319;000000000000 Date: 26 December 1982 02:25-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: CP/M Systems Programming books To: MAZE at Mit-Mc cc: STEVEH at Mit-Mc, info-cpm at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 1982 21:09-EST () from James Mazer Via: Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:09-EST Via: Brl; 26 Dec 82 2:40-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 2:31-EST Good News! As I will say in upcoming BYTE (probably March to April; the pipeline is long) Digital has reformed! Due (according to a letter I have from them; you may believe as much as you want) to my constant hounding of them, they have new documents staff. They have sent me the new manuals for CB80 and CBASIC, and they are quite good. Examples,, good organization, clear English. Now for the bad news. About six months ago I got a note from a new (two iterations ago, I think) documents person at Digital; she sent me (proudly, alas!) some new documents for CP/M 86; they were worse than the usual Digital Research standard, in that they conformed to all the "Technical Writing" university level style manuals: no redundancy, "logical" organization with levels and sublevels, no "superfluous" examples... And I have not yet seen what the new team has done with the CP/M manuals. Possibly, though, they'll reform. JEP 26-Dec-82 00:30:00,1607;000000000000 Date: 26 December 1982 02:30-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: VT180 To: coar.umass at Udel-Relay cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri) from the Golux Via: Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:14-EST Via: Brl; 26 Dec 82 2:40-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 2:32-EST Digital (DEC , not Digital Research) sent me the conversion kit for making a VT-100 into a VT-180. We inst alled it. If you like Apples, you may like this; alas, the disk drives don't seat wel, and you have mounting problems getting the machin e to believe the disks are in there. Once you have them seated and moutned, all seems well, and it is a good machine; but I never had a machine that had more problems getting it booted. The conversion is simple, (I don't recall what it costs) and if you have a VT-100 it doesn't harm the terminal capabilities, but rather enhances them; but I guarantee you will go mad if you try using it long. They were supposed to have a FIX for that; some system that would spin up the drives as you were closing the doors or something; but if they do, I have not ever got it (and the people at DEC I was dealing with seem no longer to be in that division, but rather are now off with the rainbow and thus uninterested in the VT-180.) I get the impression that DEC regarded the VT-180 as a thing to keep their name prominent while they got out the Rinabow, and that they no longer care about it. That may be an uncharitable view, but I have no evidence to the contrary. JEP 26-Dec-82 00:30:00,1682;000000000000 Date: 26 December 1982 02:30-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: VT180 To: coar.umass at Udel-Relay cc: info-cpm at BRL, info-cpm.umass at Udel-Relay In-reply-to: The message of 24 Dec 82 11:34-EDT (Fri) from the Golux Via: Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:41-EST Via: UMASS-ECE; 26 Dec 82 19:30-EST Via: Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 20:45-EST Via: Brl; 26 Dec 82 21:43-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 21:35-EST Digital (DEC , not Digital Research) sent me the conversion kit for making a VT-100 into a VT-180. We inst alled it. If you like Apples, you may like this; alas, the disk drives don't seat wel, and you have mounting problems getting the machin e to believe the disks are in there. Once you have them seated and moutned, all seems well, and it is a good machine; but I never had a machine that had more problems getting it booted. The conversion is simple, (I don't recall what it costs) and if you have a VT-100 it doesn't harm the terminal capabilities, but rather enhances them; but I guarantee you will go mad if you try using it long. They were supposed to have a FIX for that; some system that would spin up the drives as you were closing the doors or something; but if they do, I have not ever got it (and the people at DEC I was dealing with seem no longer to be in that division, but rather are now off with the rainbow and thus uninterested in the VT-180.) I get the impression that DEC regarded the VT-180 as a thing to keep their name prominent while they got out the Rinabow, and that they no longer care about it. That may be an uncharitable view, but I have no evidence to the contrary. JEP 26-Dec-82 00:50:00,979;000000000000 Date: 26 December 1982 02:50-EST From: Jerry E Pournelle Subject: what one knows... To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 2:49-EST Via: Brl; 26 Dec 82 3:40-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 3:35-EST Thanks to all those who replied to my plea for help on downloading things. As I have said to some of you: what one ought to know, and indeed once did know, is not always what one knows NOW. INFO for example. To ITS users, INFO is the natural place to turn, IF you are not connected at 300 baud. However, to those out here at the bottom of an information well, INFO is less useful than you might think, since it takes it a while to tell you what strange name it put what you want to know under. After you've seen the treetop about ten times you can get discouraged... Anyway: thanks for the help. Now if I can learn what are stop bits and precisely what protocol I am supposed to use for this, I'll get some files transferred yet! 26-Dec-82 18:56:00,718;000000000000 Date: 26 December 1982 20:56-EST From: Charlie Strom Subject: New BYE-II files To: INFO-CPM at BRL Via: Mit-Mc; 26 Dec 82 20:35-EST Via: Brl; 26 Dec 82 21:43-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 26 Dec 82 21:33-EST I have uploaded a series of files to AR73:CPM; on MC which comprise the BYE-II program. BYE allows remote operation of a CP/M system through a dial-up port. BYE-II has a series of configuration modules for various modems, serial ports, etc. which are patched into the basic file using a text editor allowing assembly for the target hardware. We expect the selection of modules to expand at a healthy pace rather than having to face dozens of equates and an ever-growing source file. 27-Dec-82 11:28:00,423;000000000000 Date: Monday, 27 Dec 1982 10:28-PST To: Ben Goldfarb Cc: Herb Lin , info-cpm at BRL Subject: Re: 8085 ZCPR version In-reply-to: Your message of 23 Dec 82 08:46:20 EST (Thu). From: bridger at Rand-Unix Via: Rand-Unix; 27 Dec 82 13:43-EST Via: Brl; 27 Dec 82 14:46-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 27 Dec 82 14:41-EST I'd like to send you a disk for a copy. Thanks. bridger 27-Dec-82 16:45:18,1865;000000000000 Date: 27-Dec-82 15:45:18-PST (Mon) From: vax135!houxm!mel at Ucb-C70 Message-Id: <8211272345.11797@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA> Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.227 [10/22/82]) id A11781; 27-Dec-82 15:45:31-PST (Mon) Re: downloading, gates, FTP, etc.? Apparently-To: info-cpm Via: Mit-Ai; 27 Dec 82 19:26-EST Via: Brl; 27 Dec 82 20:24-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 27 Dec 82 20:11-EST I just read a note on Usenet fa.info-cpm from POURNE@Mit-Mc asking how to download from ITS. Now isn't this ridiculous? Here is a noted network user, who has been a customer of MIT-MC for years, a CP/M user to respect, and he can't get through the maze either. Isn't it about time to publish on the various nets just how they are cross-connected, and what is possible in the way of mail delivery, article submission, and file transfer -- and, just how in exquisite detail to do each of these things? W8abc or whoever keeps whetting our appetites with little jems he has placed on MIT-MC (complete with search coordinates that I am sure would be useful in finding same). They might as well be sent to the backside of the moon! If these nets are going to serve their purpose, they have to get a whole lot easier to use. A great big help in this direction would be for those in the know to take some time to let those of us who aren't; in on the secrets. (Ellen, are you listening? Mark, are you?) Please don't flame at me with a bunch of Philadelphia Lawyer stuff. The nets are cross connected, there are those of you who use this advantageously (to the good of everybody: DOD, DCA, Universities, and private companies -- we all paid for these things to aid in making our industry powerful enough to do what is needed -- and I claim that computer networks are one of the areas we need to nurture NOW), please tell us how. Mel Haas , houxm!mel 27-Dec-82 22:55:00,362;000000000000 Date: 27 Dec 1982 2155-PST From: Lwright at Sri-Kl Subject: change in distribution list To: info-cpm at BRL Via: Sri-Kl; 28 Dec 82 1:03-EST Via: Brl; 28 Dec 82 1:25-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 1:33-EST Please make the following changes to your cpm info list: ADD: MCINFO@SRI-KL REMOVE: LWRIGHT@SRI-KL Thanks much- Larry Wright ------- 28-Dec-82 01:30:00,1267;000000000000 Date: 28 December 1982 03:30-EST From: Keith Petersen Subject: downloading, gates, FTP, etc.? To: vax135!houxm!mel at Ucb-C70 cc: Info-Cpm at BRL In-reply-to: The message of 27-Dec-82 15:45:18-PST (Mon) from vax135!houxm!mel at Ucb-C70 Via: Mit-Mc; 28 Dec 82 3:31-EST Via: Brl; 28 Dec 82 4:07-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 4:19-EST Thanks for your message, Mel. Unfortunately the gateway between Usenet and Arpa is not officially sanctioned and only mail seems to be able to be transferred, no files. When I announce some program has been uploaded to MIT-MC, I realize that Usenet readers won't be able to get them, but I would be willing to netmail some of the smaller files if you want them. All the files on MIT-MC are available on my Remote CP/M system (313) 759-6569 (callback), which is available 24-hours a day. Of course you have to pay for the phone call, but if that's the only way to get the "goodies" then that will have to be accepted (unless you want to wait 2-6 months for them to make their way into CP-MIG or CPMUG). I am investigating a possible way to send these files to net.sources, but havn't learned how to do that yet. I have an account on a machine that is connected to BOTH Arpa and Usenet. 28-Dec-82 15:31:17,477;000000000000 Date: 28 Dec 82 17:31:17-EST (Tue) From: Rick Conn To: BILLW at Sri-Kl cc: info-cpm at BRL Subject: Re: ZCPR2 Release Schedule and Other Info Via: Brl; 28 Dec 82 18:02-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 18:12-EST Sorry, the ZCPRn processors are very tight Z80 code (that's where the Z comes from). Am afraid you are out of luck there. However, most of the utilities are straight 8080 code, and you would probably use them. Rick 28-Dec-82 16:00:00,561;000000000000 Date: 28 Dec 82 18:00:00-EST (Tue) From: Rick Conn To: Herb Lin cc: info-cpm at BRL Subject: Re: ZCPR? Via: Brl; 28 Dec 82 18:30-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 28 Dec 82 18:38-EST ZCPR and ZCPR2 will not run on an 8085, altho many of the ZCPR2 utilities will. "ZCPR" stands for Z80-based Command Processor Replacement, and, running in the same amount of space as the conventional CP/M CCP, ZCPRn contains some very tight Z80 code, particularly jump relatives, which will NOT run on an 8080 or 8085. Rick 29-Dec-82 22:42:00,733;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: 29 December 1982 22:42 est From: Nemnich.PDO at Mit-Multics Subject: Zenith Z-90 and new Daisywriter To: Info-CPM at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Mc; 29 Dec 82 22:36-EST Via: Brl; 29 Dec 82 23:08-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 29 Dec 82 23:03-EST I have a friend who has the chance to buy a Z-90 (with 2 dsdd drives) and a Daisywriter 40cps printer for a reasonably good price from someone whom he thinks will deliver good service. He asked me to query the list, mostly to find out what Heath/Zenith owners think of the products in general (how reliable they are, etc). Same for Daisywriter. Also, he has the chance to get Magic Word or Wordstar...any comments on these? Thanks. 31-Dec-82 08:38:00,620;000000000000 Date: 31 December 1982 10:38-EST From: Shawn F McKay Subject: delete me To: info-cpm at BRL cc: info-rsts.MIT-OZ at BRL, info-apple at BRL, info-printer at Mit-Mc Via: Mit-Ml; 31 Dec 82 10:55-EST Via: Brl; 31 Dec 82 11:14-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 11:36-EST I have sent mail to most of your info-foo-request lists, and nothing, so, here it is on the list, "Please remove my name from this list", and I hope some point after things calm down, (i.e. when people only get 1 copy of any mail they are sent), I would like to be on all the above again.. Thanks -Shawn 31-Dec-82 10:19:00,2290;000000000000 Date: 31 Dec 82 12:19:00-EST (Fri) From: Rick Conn To: info-cpm at BRL cc: info-micro at BRL Subject: ZCPR2 Release Via: Brl; 31 Dec 82 12:35-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 12:41-EST The release of ZCPR2 is more-or-less on schedule. Two of the four manuals are virtually finished, and some bugs have shown up in some of the utilities, but I think they will be ready by the 10 Jan release date. As scheduled, today is the release of drafts to the ARPA Net. I will try to upload the drafts of the Concepts Manual and the Installation Manual to MIT-MC tonight. I will send out a message when they are there. The only hitch I can see right now revolves around TCP conversion. The following is a summary of what will be uploaded. At the time of the upload announcement, I will also send a summary (rather long) to INFO-CPM. ZCPR2 Concepts and Installation Manuals First Draft Release The Squeezed Forms will have been uploaded to MIT-MC. They will be stored in the CPM directory, and their names are Z2CON and Z2INS with types of WQ and WQH (i.e., Z2CON WQ is one manual). The Concepts Manual is over 60 pages long. The Installation Manual is over 27 pages long. Files: 1 File: Z2CON .WQ -- Size: 72K -- CRC: 00 37 Comment: Squeezed Concepts Manual 2 File: Z2CON .WQH -- Size: 8K -- CRC: 0E 37 Comment: Squeezed Concepts Table of Contents and Foreword 3 File: Z2CON .WS -- Size: 112K -- CRC: 62 6F Comment: Concepts Manual (WordStar Format) 4 File: Z2CON .WSH -- Size: 8K -- CRC: 4F B4 Comment: Concepts Manual Table of Contents and Foreword 5 File: Z2INS .WQ -- Size: 32K -- CRC: BF 97 Comment: Squeezed Installation Manual 6 File: Z2INS .WQH -- Size: 4K -- CRC: D2 46 Comment: Squeezed Ins Manual Table of Contents and Foreword 7 File: Z2INS .WS -- Size: 52K -- CRC: 2F 2F Comment: Installation Manual (WordStar Format) 8 File: Z2INS .WSH -- Size: 8K -- CRC: 02 F5 Comment: Installation Manual Table of Contents and Foreword ++ 8 Files Checked ++ Rick 31-Dec-82 12:16:00,1089;000000000000 Date: 31 December 1982 14:16-EST From: RMS.G.EH.MIT-OZ at BRL Sender: EH at Mit-Ai To: info-cpm at BRL cc: EH at Mit-Ai Via: Mit-Ai; 31 Dec 82 14:15-EST Via: Brl; 31 Dec 82 14:18-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 14:21-EST Hello, As some of you may have known, there is some kind of incompatiblity with the early MODEM.COM's and the later super MODEM7's along with MBOOT3 and XMODEM. While running my RCPM sys (DataTech 415-595-0541), I noticed XMODEM 4.2 didnt work with MODEM7 so I had to upgrade to XMODEM 5.xx ... Today, was trying to transfer a file from from my H89 to my TRS-80 and it didnt work..the TRS-80 (MODEM2) and the H89 (MODEM731) kept bombing out with TIMEOUT and 15H RCVD NOT ACK. However,my MODEM2 and MODEM7 will talk to XMODEMs on others and talk to MBOOT3 on my computers. So, I had to use MBOOT on trs-80 instead of MODEM2 to receive the file from H89 and use MBOOT on H89 instead of MODEM7 to receive from TRS-80. Really confusing...what happened to protocol standard in MODEM7xx ?? Thank you very much, Edward Huang 31-Dec-82 12:48:59,1567;000000000000 Date: 31 Dec 82 14:48:59-EST (Fri) From: Rick Conn To: info-cpm at BRL cc: info-micro at BRL Subject: ZCPR2 Manuals on MC Via: Brl; 31 Dec 82 14:59-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 15:05-EST As advertised, the draft ZCPR2 Concepts and Installation manuals are now on MIT-MC under CPM as Z2CON WQ, Z2CON WQH, Z2INS WQ, AND Z2INS WQH. They will have to be unsqueezed in order to read them. Download time should be roughly 1 hour for Z2CON WQ and 1 hour for the other three. Note that these are subject to revi- sion and will probably be revised. As I see your tradeoffs (and the purpose of this upload), you can download now, read the manu- als, and send questions and comments. If you have any problem with some part of the manuals, now is a good time to find out (i.e., before final release). There will be time to discuss them before I start travelling. Also, if you are interested in at- tending one of my talks, it might be nice to have seen the sub- ject material beforehand and then use the free time to discuss details. The CRC values on the files check as advertised in my previous message. Also, the CPM directory is now 94.5% full with this addition, and Frank or Keith may wish to move these files. A summary message on ZCPR2 will come out later today. The next major item in the schedule is release of new final manu- als, ZCPR2 itself, and all of the ZCPR2 System Utilities on 10-11 Jan. Enjoy. Rick 31-Dec-82 20:23:08,14355;000000000000 Date: 31 Dec 82 22:23:08-EST (Fri) From: Rick Conn To: info-cpm@Brl.arpa Subject: ZCPR2 Summary Via: Brl; 31 Dec 82 22:35-EST Via: Brl-Bmd; 31 Dec 82 22:39-EST The following is a summary of some of the major features of ZCPR2. It is not complete, and I tried to make it as brief as possible. Its purpose is to give you some idea of what ZCPR2 does and, if you are still interested, the Concepts Manual goes into a complete description and much more detail with examples. Enjoy! Rick ---- Summary Follows ---- A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities 1 Overview of ZCPR2 by Richard Conn The Z80-based Command Processor Replacement Version 2 (ZCPR2) is a replacement for the CP/M Console Command Processor (CCP) which creates an extremely capable and flexible environ- ment, placing a totally new interface on the user's CP/M system. The primary purpose of ZCPR2 is to improve the user's product- ivity by giving him an environment which is much more responsive to his needs and configurable to his specific desires than CP/M 2.2 while still remaining CP/M 2.2 compatable and allowing him to run most, if not all, of his CP/M software with little or no modification. ZCPR2 provides an interactive interface to the user's micro- computer which is significantly extended over that interface provided by the CP/M 2.2 CCP. The user is invited to refer to the Rationale Manual for a detailed comparison between the CP/M 2.2 CCP and ZCPR2. A working knowledge of CP/M 2.2 is assumed for the following discussion. Also, the following discussion pertains to ZCPR2 systems which are configured in the recommended way (see the Installation Manual). There are over 4,000,000 ways (conceivably) that one may configure a ZCPR2 system for his own uses, and, as a general rule, the features described below may be turned on or off as the system manager desires. There are currently four documents planned to accompany ZCPR2. These documents and their functions are: 1) Installation Manual -- How to Install ZCPR2 2) Concepts Manual (this teaser was derived from it) -- a tutorial on the basic concepts associated with using ZCPR2, the ZCPR2 System of Programs, and the ZCPR2 environments 3) Rationale -- why things were done the way they were done under ZCPR2 4) User's Guide -- how to use ZCPR2, including details on all of the ZCPR2 commands in the ZCPR2 System 1. Directories under ZCPR2 A directory under ZCPR2 is a user area on a disk, and it is identified by the combination of the disk letter and the number of the user area (like A10 or B7) or by a mnemonic name (like JEFF or ROOT). The directory is a logical concept, and there is only one physical file directory (which keeps track of all the files) on each logical disk. A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities 2 The disk/user way of identifying a directory (called the DU form from here on) is standard to the ZCPR2-resident commands and the ZCPR2-specific utilities. In all cases, these commands will permit use of the DU: form wherever the simpler D: form was used under CP/M 2.2, and the D part of the DU: form is optional. For instance, the following ZCPR2-resident commands are valid exam- ples which illustrate the utility of this extended directory specification: A>DIR A7: A>DIR A: A>DIR 7: A>ERA B22:MYFILE.TXT A>TYPE C31:README.TXT A>LIST 12:LOCAL.MSG A>SAVE 2DH C12:SYSTEM.CPM Hence, the user can "sit" in any directory on any disk and readily work with files in any other directory on any disk. Likewise, where the user used to be able to prefix a COM file with a disk letter in order to temporarily log into another disk and extract that file from it, the ZCPR2 user can prefix a COM file with a DU form: A>7:MYPROG A>C31:RUNIT A>B:MYGO Finally, the third logical extension of this DU form is to allow the user to employ it to "log into" a directory, like he used the D: form before to simply change disks and the "USER n" command to change user areas: A>B7: B7>12: B12>C: C12>0: C> As a side note, because of the flexibility of the DU form, the USER command is no longer necessary and is not available under ZCPR2 unless a programmer implements it as a transient. ZCPR2 is a replacement for the CP/M 2.2 CCP, but it is only a part of the ZCPR2 SYSTEM. The ZCPR2 System is a collection of programs consisting of ZCPR2 itself and a series of utilities designed to augment the capabilities of ZCPR2. All of these utilities respond to the ZCPR2 DU form, just like the ZCPR2- resident commands, while the conventional CP/M utilities do not. For example, the following commands show examples of some of the ZCPR2 utilities available in the ZCPR2 distribution: A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities 3 A>XDIR B7: A>ERASE C4:FILE1.TXT,B31:FILE2.TXT,FILE3.TXT A>RENAME B12:*.BAS=*.BAK,14:MYFILE.TXT=HISFILE.TXT A>MCOPY C22:=A11:*.* These ZCPR2 utilities, however, support a second form of directory specification as well. This is the named directory specification, called the DIR form from now on. The DIR form is a logical association between a mnemonic name and a disk/user area. For example, the directory name of ROOT may be assigned to mean A0, JEFF to mean C4, BACKUP to mean C0, etc. All of the ZCPR2 utilities (by and large) recognize this form as well; the following are examples: A>XDIR WORK1:*.ASM A>ERASE TEXT1:FILE1.TXT,TEXT2:FILE2.TXT,FILE3.TXT A>RENAME JEFF:*.BAS=*.BAK A>MCOPY BACKUP:=*.* With the named directory environment fully implemented, the user's ZCPR2 system can be configured in a number of different ways beyond even the 4,000,000+ basic ways ZCPR2 can be config- ured. In particular, a directory tree structure can be set up, similar to the UNIX concept but much more flexible. For example, the following environment is one such working environment which can be created under ZCPR2: ----------------- ROOT ----------------------- | / \ | ROBERT JEFF LINDA BOSS | / | \ / | | \ | || HARDWORK JA CB JC LA CB LC LD WATCHJ |WATCHL / | | WATCHR GAMES SCHOOL GAMES Sample ZCPR2 Named Directory Structure 2. ZCPR2 Resident Commands Like the CP/M 2.2 CCP, ZCPR2 contains some commands within itself. It contains all of the CCP commands (except USER, which isn't needed anymore) and a few more, but all of the ZCPR2 resi- dent commands are different with logical extensions to the CCP commands. We have already seen the DU form, which can be used with any ZCPR2 resident command. Note that the DU form is a logical extension of the D: prefix under CP/M 2.2. The following is a comparison of the various resident com- mand forms under the CP/M 2.2 CCP and ZCPR2: A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities 4 Comparison of ZCPR2 and CP/M 2.2 CCP Resident Commands Function ZCPR2 Command CCP Command Display $DIR File Names DIR DU:afn DIR D:afn Display $SYS File Names DIR DU:afn S No Equivalent Display All File Names DIR DU:afn A No Equivalent Erase Specified Files ERA DU:afn ERA D:afn Erase with Verify ERA DU:afn V No Equivalent Rename File REN DU:ufn=ufn2 REN DU:ufn=ufn2 Rename Over Existing File REN DU:ufn=ufn2 No Equivalent Print File on Console TYPE DU:ufn P TYPE D:ufn Without Paging Print File on Console TYPE DU:ufn No Equivalent With Paging Print File on Printer LIST DU:ufn No Equivalent Save Memory into File SAVE n DU:ufn SAVE n D:ufn Save Memory into File SAVE n DU:ufn No Equivalent With Overwrite Warning Save Memory into File SAVE nH DU:ufn No Equivalent and Specify Size in Hex Save Memory into File SAVE n DU:ufn S No Equivalent and Specify Number of or Blocks SAVE nH DU:ufn S Load File Anywhere Into GET adr DU:ufn No Equivalent Memory Reexecute Last Transient GO params No Equivalent Without Reloading It Call Subroutine Anywhere in JUMP adr No Equivalent Memory Change Disk D: D: Change User U: USER n Change Disk and User at DU: No Equivalent Same Time A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities 5 3. ZCPR2 Standard Transient Commands All of the CP/M-supplied transient commands will work with ZCPR2, and ZCPR2 supplies several additional ZCPR2-specific tran- sients, as indicated in the following tables: Program Function ------- --------- CD Log Into Named Directory with Extended Preprocessing COMPARE Utility to Compare Two Files CRC Cyclic Redundancy Check Utility DIFF Utility to List File Differences DUTIL Disk Utility, based on DU ECHO Utility to Echo Its Command Line ERASE File Erase Utility FINDBAD Bad Block Scanner, based on FINDBD GENINS Utility to Install Itself and Other Utilities HELP Online Documentation System LD Load Named Directory Buffer LU/LRUNZ Command Library Utility and Extended Command Processor MCHECK Menu File Syntax Checker MCOPY File Copy Utility which can replace PIP in many cases MENU Extended Command PreProcessor designed to create menus MKDIR Create Named Directory File PATH Define/Display ZCPR2 Paths PROTECT Utility to Set File Attributes PWD Print Current Named Directory Environment RENAME File Rename Utility STARTUP Initial Command Line Generator SUB2 Extended SUBMIT Indirect Command File Facility XDIR Directory Display and Scan Utility ZEX Memory-Based Indirect Command File Facility and Monitor 4. Multiple Command Lines Another major feature of ZCPR2 is the Multiple Command Line. Unlike CP/M 2.2, ZCPR2 will allow you to specify a sequence of commands to be executed on one line. Under the recommended configuration, each command is separated by a semicolon. For example: A>B:;DIR A7:*.TXT;DIR C22:*.COM A;C7:;ERA *.COM;DIR A>1:;TINIT ASM;B7:;WS TEST.TXT;ERA *.BAK;XDIR A Brief Overview of ZCPR2 Features and Facilities 6 5. Command Processing and Paths Command processing under CP/M 2.2 is really quite simple: 1) Input and Parse Command Line from User or File 2) Determine if it is a CCP-resident command and run it if so 3) Determine if there is a COM file in the current disk/user area and load it and run it if so 4) Print error message if 2 and 3 fail Command processing under ZCPR2, however, is quite different: 1) Input and Parse Command Line from User or File 2) Determine if it is a ZCPR2-resident command and run it if so 3) Search along the command search path, logging into the disks and user areas indicated in the path until either the bottom of the path is reached or the desired COM file is found; run program if found 4) Invoke an Extended Command Processor, passing the Command Line to it 5) Print error message if 2, 3, and 4 fail As the reader can see, the concept of a path is fundamental to ZCPR2. In the ZCPR2 vernacular, a Path is a sequence of directories to be searched for a file. The specification of a path is as a sequence of DU forms which are extended by the introduction of the "$" character to indicate a current disk or current user area. A sample path is: $$ $0 A$ A0 -- Path From Current Disk/Current User to Current Disk/User 0 to Disk A/Current User to Disk A/User 0 (Current Disk/User is the disk/user area that the user is logged into) If the user is logged into B7, for instance, then this symbolic path would be translated into the absolute path of B7 B0 A7 A0. When ZCPR2 searches for a file, it follows such a path. Two extremely flexible features about the ZCPR2 design are: 1) the command search path may be redefined dynamically by the user 2) several ZCPR2 transients use paths also, and these paths may be the same path used by command search or they may be unique to each transient