11-Oct-83 07:18:05-MDT,1052;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:18:00-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 6 Oct 83 3:41 EDT Date: Thu, 6 Oct 83 3:34:50 EDT From: Keith Petersen To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr Subject: Bad ZCPR2 XDIR3.MAC from SIG/M The following is relayed from the SYSOP Clearinghouse RCPM. Date: 10/05/83 From: Tom Bering To: All Re: Bad ZCPR2 XDIR3.MAC I have found the same bad copy of XDIR3.MAC on all systems called to date, save one. Seems that SIG/M released it that way when the ZCPR2 package was made available. Many system operators seem unaware that the file is bad because the CRC is as shown in the CRC index for the volume containing that file. The last few sectors of XDIR3.MAC having the CRC 69BD are garbage. The correct CRC is that shown in Appendix A of the Installation Manual, 8CD9. Correct CRC for the SQUEEZED version XDIR3.MQC is 24F4. Tom Bering 11-Oct-83 07:28:10-MDT,924;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:28:05-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 7 Oct 83 15:42 EDT Received: From Rochester.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 7 Oct 83 15:41 EDT Received: by sen.rochester (3.327.3N) id AA14567; 5 Oct 83 19:57:23 EDT (Wed) Received: by cay.Rochester (3.327.3N+) id AA00335; 5 Oct 83 19:58:11 EDT (Wed) Message-Id: <8310052357.14567@sen.rochester> Date: 5 Oct 83 19:57:23 EDT (Wed) From: Mike Ciaraldi Subject: S-100 Networking To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA We (Taylor Instrument) have several Zenith Z-100's we want to tie together in a local network. Does anyone have experience with S-100-bus-compatible networking boards (Ethernet, Omninet, etc.) and software that runs under CP/M-80, CP/M-86, Concurrent CP/M-86, and/or MS-DOS? Mike Ciaraldi ciaraldi@rochester 11-Oct-83 07:29:39-MDT,787;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:29:35-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 7 Oct 83 17:12 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 7 Oct 83 17:06 EDT Date: Fri, 7 Oct 83 17:03 EDT From: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Chapter-11 ?? To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA cc: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA I've heard a nasty rumor and I dont know if it is true. The rumor is that NorthStar computers, the people who used to sell the S-100 Horizons as kits, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. We are in the process of purchasing about 30 Advantages and would like to know whether or not this rumor is true. Thanks, Tracy. Thieret.WBST @ PARC-MAXC.ARPA 11-Oct-83 07:36:02-MDT,1111;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:35:57-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 8 Oct 83 18:06 EDT Received: From Ucb-Vax.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 8 Oct 83 18:01 EDT Received: by ucbvax.ARPA (4.12/4.7) id AA23187; Sat, 8 Oct 83 15:03:07 PDT Date: Sat, 8 Oct 83 15:01:00 PDT From: jlapsley%D.CC@berkeley Message-Id: <8310082203.AA23187@ucbvax.ARPA> To: k.mmoon.ES@parc-maxc Subject: CompurPro 8085/8088 BIOS Cc: k.info-cpm@brl The CompuPro CP/M-86 or CP/M-816 comes with a BIOS. Unfortunately the BIOS is a huge creature and must be assembled with Sorcim's ACT assembler. Because all I/O is handled under the 8088 whether you are in 8085 mode or not, you will have to be fluent in 8088 assembler if you wish to modify the BIOS. They even say in their CP/M-86 Tech manual, "Expect no hand holding from CompuPro, G & G Engineering, or Sorcim." But if you have a good knowledge of 8086/8088, it would seem possible without a great deal of trouble. Phil (jlapsley%D.CC@BERKELEY) 11-Oct-83 07:40:42-MDT,907;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:40:38-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 8 Oct 83 22:40 EDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 8 Oct 83 22:33 EDT Date: 8 October 1983 21:31 cdt From: Weinstein.Tech_Rep@hi-multics Subject: BIOS Changes for 10 mbyte HARD DISC To: info-cpm@brl Anyone out their willing to share some words of wisdom. I have an R2E computer with a 5 megabyte drive right now. I would like to modify the software to support a 10 megabyte drive. Is there a 8 megabyte limit per CPM logical volume.......what is this tied to? I figure the best way would to break the 10 MB into two logical 5 MB drives. If there is anyone out their that has a 10 MB on an R2E or would like to give general type information.... pls send mail..... ... thx in advance Dennis 11-Oct-83 07:43:09-MDT,1146;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:42:55-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 9 Oct 83 17:52 EDT Received: From 10.3.0.44.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 9 Oct 83 17:47 EDT Date: 9 October 1983 17:49 EDT From: Keith F. Lynch To: REM@mit-mc, DEVON@mit-mc cc: KFL@mit-mc, INFO-CPM@mit-mc, protocols@rutgers Why are there no implementations of PC-net available? Our application involves linking a VMS, a TOPS-10, a couple CP/Ms, and possibly some MS-DOSs over asynchronous lines, probably at 1200 to 9600 baud. The only real possibilities would seem to be KERMIT and MODEM7. I have heard of no PC-net implementations for any of the above mentioned systems. We will most likely go with KERMIT. Does anyone know of any KERMIT implementation for a Molecular? I heard that some company (possibly IBM) has come out with something they called "PC-net" for use with the IBM-PC. This was about a year ago. It was mentioned briefly on the net and then (apparently) forgotten. Whatever happened with that? ...Keith 11-Oct-83 07:44:30-MDT,1879;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 07:44:23-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 10 Oct 83 14:57 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 10 Oct 83 14:56 EDT Date: Mon, 10 Oct 83 11:53 PDT From: MMOON.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Re: 85/88 In-reply-to: <8310081353.AA17623@lbl-csam.ARPA> To: Ian.F.Darwin@LBL-CSAM.ARPA, Toronto@LBL-CSAM.ARPA, Canada cc: utcsrgv!uw-beaver!lbl-csam!mmoon.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, grant.groggy@LBL-CSAM.ARPA, info-cpm@brl.ARPA The info I have from National says the NSC800 is *not* pin compatible with the 8085. This is more than a mere rearrangement of corresponding signals to different locations; while the address/data and intererupt busses have corresponding pinouts, the other signals have a z80 flavor. I am most interested in maintaining IEEE-696 timing, as well as the "16-bit" upgrade, so I must do a good timing analysis before a piggy-back could be designed. Furthermore, their is serious doubt, if I read the literature correctly as to the TTL compatibility of the NSC800, at least at full speed. The levels required to assure logic 1 and logic 0 on this CPU's inputs look like they may stretch the slew rates of the interfacing TTL in the worst case. Still got to think about that one. The information I have is on the 4 Mhz version of this device & while I may *call* National's rep, could be 2001 before I get any reply. Therefore this message is heeaded for netland, in the hopes someone else has looked at this very tempting possibility, and to keep Rumour Control from propagating the mistaken (unfortunately) notion that the Nsc800 is a drop-in-and-go replacement (just in case somebody is following this enquiry with like intentions). MMoon.es 11-Oct-83 08:11:09-MDT,638;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 08:11:04-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 6 Oct 83 15:10 EDT Received: From Utexas-20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 6 Oct 83 15:07 EDT Date: Thu 6 Oct 83 09:37:59-CDT From: CS.TEMIN@UTEXAS-20.ARPA Subject: cromemco system three To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA Anyone out there have one? I just bought it. It is about three years old, with standard 64K configuration. I am running an ancient CDOs, but would like to uprgrade to CPM 2.2. Please respond directly to cs.temin@utexas-20. Thanks. ------- 11-Oct-83 08:14:26-MDT,691;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 08:14:21-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 7 Oct 83 10:06 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 7 Oct 83 10:01 EDT Date: 6 Oct 83 16:42:56 PDT (Thursday) From: McAfee.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Televideo TS802 To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA cc: 820Interest^.Wbst@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, ES820UG^.es@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, Homecomputing^.pa@PARC-MAXC.ARPA, McAfee.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Reply-To: McAfee.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA I am looking for the disk format for the Televideo TS802. Both SSSD and DSDD. Thanks Pete McAfee McAfee.es@PARC-MAXC.ARPA 11-Oct-83 15:38:14-MDT,544;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 15:38:09-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 11 Oct 83 16:23 EDT Received: From Simtel20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 11 Oct 83 16:13 EDT Date: 11 Oct 1983 14:11 MDT (Tue) From: Frank J. Wancho To: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA Subject: Contributing files If you have public domain files to contribute to the collection on the SIMTEL20, please contact me directly for the details. --Frank 11-Oct-83 18:30:54-MDT,1067;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 11 Oct 83 18:30:48-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 11 Oct 83 20:02 EDT Received: From Rutgers.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 11 Oct 83 19:59 EDT Date: 11 Oct 83 19:58:17 EDT From: JOSEPH@RUTGERS.ARPA Subject: What is the latest modem for the Hayes Micromodem 100? To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA Hi, I run an RCP/M system in New Jersey on a Cromemco Z80 cpu S100 system using the D.C. Hayes Micromodem 100 for 110 and 300 baud callers. We are currently running an old (very) version of modem and would like to upgrade to something newer with better features. I have seen MODEM 712 up and running on a Zenith Z100 and I really like it. I have read through the documentation for MODEM712 and it supports the PMMI but does not seem to support the Hayes. Does anyone have Modem712 configured for the Hayes? What was the latest version that DID support the Hayes and where can I get it? Seymour JOSEPH@RUTGERS ------- 12-Oct-83 07:34:53-MDT,632;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 12 Oct 83 07:34:48-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 11 Oct 83 23:24 EDT Received: From 10.3.0.44.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 11 Oct 83 22:06 EDT Date: 11 October 1983 22:07 EDT From: Paul L. Kelley Subject: Mapping of MC:CPM; onto SIMTEL20 directories To: Info-CPM@brl The mapping of the MC:CPM;ARnn archives onto SIMTEL20 directories is available as MC:JCAF;MC-TO- SIMTEL. This file was earlier available on MC:CPM; however this directory seems to have gone to the great beyond. 12-Oct-83 07:37:31-MDT,1398;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 12 Oct 83 07:37:25-MDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 12 Oct 83 7:05 EDT Date: Wed, 12 Oct 83 7:00:21 EDT From: Charlie Strom (NYU) To: Larry Campbell cc: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr Subject: Re: C compiler info wanted Larry, I noted your comments with interest. I too am about to go for a 16 bit version of C, mine to run under CP/M-86. I have a couple of comments for you and would appreciate your resonse. The Byte article seemed to imply that the DeSmet compiler would not fly in the long run only because it is cheap ($100), not because it is inherently defective or less powerful than its competitors. I am leaning to CI's C86 package. I am a neophyte at C still, but it seems that this one is more popular than the others - would still like to see a product emerge that is the BDS C of 16 bitters, but it is unlikely. Your objection to C86's needing a lot of typing ought to be solved trivially with a SUBMIT file, right? Lastly, I have been told that support from the author is excellent from C86 and non-existent from Mark Williams. I do not want to buy any more products from an outfit unwilling to spend the money and effort to properly support them. Thanks in advance for your reactions. 12-Oct-83 09:31:34-MDT,1239;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 12 Oct 83 09:31:25-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 12 Oct 83 10:43 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 12 Oct 83 10:29 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 5 Oct 83 0:25-PDT Date: 3 Oct 83 17:20:04-PDT (Mon) To: info-cpm@brl From: harpo!floyd!cmcl2!lanl-a!bb@ucb-vax Subject: Need a pointer to UMODEM stuff Article-I.D.: lanl-a.2351 I am using a CompuPro 8088/8086 with 643K memory, hard disks, and floppies. I run MP/M with mods installed by Gifford, the company we bought it from. We need to communicate with the Central Computing Facility here at LANL and have been using a program supplied by Gifford. Unfortunatly, there are problems with this program, like losing random characters which would disastrous for the application we have in mind. SO, instead of starting to write our own simple comm. program, I want to check out UMODEM and/or anything else available for a system like mine. Would someone point me to what I should look at/acquire at SIMTEL20 ? Any advice and pointers is appreciated. Bryan Bingham ...ucbvax!lbl-csam!lanl-a!bb 12-Oct-83 12:44:36-MDT,4945;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 12 Oct 83 12:44:21-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 12 Oct 83 12:07 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 12 Oct 83 11:51 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 5 Oct 83 1:27-PDT Date: 28 Sep 83 12:38:55-PDT (Wed) To: info-cpm@brl From: decvax!duke!unc!mcnc!ecsvax!dgary@ucb-vax Subject: Re: Wanted: random number generator written in C Article-I.D.: ecsvax.1289 In-Reply-To: Article tekecs.2200 There seem to be two independent questions here: What is a good algorithm for generating random numbers that is independent of hard- ware, and how do you come up with a reasonably random seed every time you run? Taking the second question first, the problem is fairly trivial if you have a real time clock (which isn't available in this case, evidently), or a way to check the keyboard to see if the user has typed something. (In the latter case, you ask the user for some complicated input and generate random numbers until you get a keypress.) If neither is easily available, you may have a problem! I suspect a solution is going to be system-dependent no matter what you do, other than asking the user for his/her birthday, social security number, bank balance, SAT score (my old favorite choice of random deviates), etc.. So I'd suggest you isolate that part of the code. Fortunately, random numbers are fairly easy to generate. The "standard" way is to take the old seed, multiply by a fixed amount, add a fixed amount, mod the result (or let it overflow on systems that aren't traumatized by integer overflow), and that's your next number and the next seed. The trick is in generating good values for the two constants. Actually there are THREE constants, counting the multiplier, the addend, and the thing you mod with (whatever the heck that's called). Since that's often "automatic" (the silent overflow), you don't hear it discussed much. If x is the seed, m the modulus, a the multiplier, and c the increment, we can use the formula (ax+c) mod m. M should be a large number, ideally prime. If it IS prime, you only need to choose a and c so that they have no common factors (other than 1), so they can be made prime. That guarantees (if memory serves) that the sequence you get will be at least m long. It doesn't guarantee that it will be really "random", and you are probably advised to experiment with different values for a, c, and m (or even join ACM) to make sure you get something acceptable. Knuth (in Seminumerical Algorithms) waxes eloquent on this subject. My own favorite random number generator is incredibly fast and well-suited to microcomputer and game applications. It depends on the silent integer overflow (which all microprocessors provide, to my knowledge), and can be coded in a few statements in assembler. The basic idea is easily visualized by having a circular list of numbers, at least one of which is odd. Picture the list written around the perimeter of the face of a clock. We disconnect the mechanism and weld together the hour and minute hands so that they are a fixed angle apart. Starting anywhere, we add the contents of the "box" pointed to by the hour hand to the one pointed to by the minute hand. That's our new random number and replaces the one pointed to by the hour hand. The we advance the hands one box. Only adds and increments are involved, so this is incredibly speedy. It also generates very, very long sequences that are hard to object to on practical grounds (I mean for games...this tech- nique is probably unadvisable for research work, I've read). You also must ensure that the initial set of seeds contains some fairly widely spaced numbers - the first few dozen (or few thousand) numbers generated don't look very random if you put small numbers in the buckets at the outset. You need to make sure that you have at least one odd number to start with (otherwise you can never get one), and the number of boxes and the "angle between the hands" is important. Here is the algorithm in simple form: 1. Make array X with elements X[1] to X[5] 2. Make integers I and J 3. Initialize all X to seed values (at least one odd) 4. Initialize I to 2 and J to 5 5. Repeat forever: Increase X[J] by X[I] Output X[J] as the next random number Increment I and J, but if either goes over 5, reset it to 1 The numbers 2 and 5 are "magic". Others that work (in pairs) are (1,2), (1,3), (1,4), (2,5), (1,6), (1,7), (3,7), (4,9), (3,10), (2,11), etc. In general, the bigger J the longer the sequence. These numbers are dependent on doing a mod with a power of 2 (or allowing integer overflow on a binary machine). See Knuth for a long description of all this mess. 12-Oct-83 13:37:26-MDT,781;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 12 Oct 83 13:37:20-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 12 Oct 83 12:34 EDT Received: From 10.3.0.44.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 12 Oct 83 12:08 EDT Date: Tue, 11 Oct 83 13:07 EDT From: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Re: Chapter-11 ?? In-reply-to: "Your message of 11 Oct 83 11:18:55 EDT (Tuesday)" To: Mike Simpson cc: INFO-CPM@mit-mc.ARPA, Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA I just called the TREASURER of NorthStar and he said that there is no problem of cash flow or profitability for their company. Articles in Business Week and USA Today uphold that srtatement. Apparently the rumor is NOT TRUE!!!! Tracy. 13-Oct-83 08:20:42-MDT,795;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 13 Oct 83 08:20:33-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 12 Oct 83 21:55 EDT Received: From Mit-Ml.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 12 Oct 83 21:45 EDT Date: 12 October 1983 21:48 EDT From: Herb Lin Subject: help? To: info-cpm@brl I have a bootstrap problem concerning getting a couple of files from mc which will enable me to start downloading. The files I need on a standard 8 inch CP/M disk are on-line now, but I have no way of transferring them to my machine without them. can someone pls help by transferring these files (I will give pointers) to an 8 inch disk, and mailing me the disk? I will of course pay postage, disk cost etc. thanks. 13-Oct-83 09:59:29-MDT,1794;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 13 Oct 83 09:59:21-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 4:05 EDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 3:53 EDT Date: 13 October 1983 00:53 pdt From: Bakin.ESSDPP@hi-multics Subject: DEC Rainbow questions To: info-cpm@brl Acknowledge-To: Bakin.ESSDPP at HI-MULTICS The DEC Rainbow now comes with both CP/M and MSDOS. A Computique salesman claimed that with the Winchesters, a file created by an MSDOS program could be used by a CP/M program and vice versa. IS THIS TRUE? Also, in the same vein.... Does anyone make ANY MSDOS programs for the Rainbow? Every piece of software I have seen has been for CP/M. Is there a vendor writing compilers for the Rainbow which use the same object file format, and have similar calling conventions, and hence can be linked together? I wouldn't mind buying compilers which were not the best, if there was a somewhat complete set of languages. Specifically, I am looking for a Pascal, FORTRAN (77?), PL/I, and assemblers that will link together. Any help? I am also looking for real word-processing software, I do not have enough experience with SELECT, and none with any Final Word stuff, but I suspect they are not what I want. I would rather have a screen editor, and a word-processor which are separate. Something ala runoff on the DEC-10 or VAX, or compose on Multics or nroff on UN*X. Is there anything like these for the Rainbow? In the same light, what are the best screen editors for the Rainbow? I know that MinceIsNotEmacs, but how close is it? Thanks in advance, (In advance of my buying a Rainbow) Jerry Bakin 14-Oct-83 08:36:18-MDT,691;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 08:36:14-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 1:10 EDT Received: From Rand-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 1:07 EDT Date: Thursday, 13 Oct 1983 18:11-PDT To: info-cpm@brl Cc: bridger@rand-unix Subject: ?break key for modem9 with z80sio From: bridger@rand-unix What's a good way to enable a Kaypro or similar z80-sio machine that lacks a hardware break key to send a break with MODEM9? For convenience, the break command should be optionally bound to a one-stroke keyboard key, possibly one that sends an 8-bit code. --bridger 14-Oct-83 10:51:09-MDT,1898;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 10:51:03-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 9:45 EDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 9:33 EDT Date: 13 October 1983 08:29 cdt From: Ronald W. Subject: UMODEM 3.6 problem? To: INFO-CPM@brl I have compiled UMODEM 3.6 on a Wicat 150 under Unisoft's port using the SYS3 define and VAX/11-780 under 4.1bsd using the VER7 define and in both cases I have the same problem. To get umodem onto the two systems, I used ftp to get it to my main host (HI-Multics), used the MODEM2 protocol to get it to my home CP/M system, then raw dumped it up to each of the other two systems (incompatible media, etc.). After making sure there were no line glitches, I compiled the programs as above and used them to try to transfer the same UMODEM 3.6 source up again, so that I could compare the two copies. I wanted to make real sure that there were no hidden problems in the original source transfer. What I got was the first block of data, then UMODEM thought that it had received the end of file. MDM712 still thought it was doing a transfer until it did its ten retries on block two. I did this several times and the problem was with the same first block each time. Other files worked ok. I tried deleting an asterisk from the first 128 bytes of the file, then it transferred fine until much later in the file. I figure that it must be a problem with some checksums. The checksum for that block was 1CH (if I figure it right). After fudging things by making minor changes to the offending blocks, I was able to send UMODEM 3.6 to the Wicat and, except for my two changes to comments, compared identically to the original. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks. Ron . 14-Oct-83 10:53:23-MDT,920;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 10:53:17-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 10:25 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 10:11 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 8 Oct 83 21:10-PDT Date: 30 Sep 83 8:23:55-PDT (Fri) To: info-cpm@brl From: ihnp4!houxm!hocda!machaids!djj@ucb-vax Subject: Need CRC information Article-I.D.: machaids.470 I need some information on CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Codes). I have CRCK.COM version 4.4 and LU.COM version 3.00, they each compute a different CRC for the same file. Does anybody know which one is correct? Also I would appreciate receiving any routine written in "C" that computes CRC codes. Thanks. Don Jackowski, Bell Labs, x4443, Whippany, NJ (machaids!djj, iheds!djj) 14-Oct-83 11:09:35-MDT,757;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 11:09:29-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 10:49 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 10:26 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 9 Oct 83 3:27-PDT Date: 6 Oct 83 12:13:09-PDT (Thu) To: info-cpm@brl From: hplabs!hao!seismo!rlgvax!plunkett@ucb-vax Subject: RE: Re: FORTRAN (ugh!) Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1249 In-Reply-To: Article pur-phy.1040, <2421@csu-cs.UUCP> Anyone considering SuperSoft or Microsoft FORTRAN might like to await the upcoming FORTRAN-77 from Digital Research, Inc. It will be seen to blow the others out of the water. Scott Plunkett 14-Oct-83 11:17:08-MDT,806;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 11:17:02-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 11:03 EDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 10:47 EDT Date: Thu, 13 Oct 83 10:31:33 EDT From: Gregory Hogg To: info-cpm@brl cc: greg@brl-bmd Subject: "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" Hello, I was wondering if anyone had the above book? If so have you typed in the BDS-C Library functions in chapter 11? They have some very nice functions for playing with the dir on the disk. This book looks great! Please let me know if you can give me a pointer to these funcitons so that I do not have to type them in again. Greg the Hogg 14-Oct-83 11:45:29-MDT,1316;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 11:45:23-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 12:48 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 12:39 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 9 Oct 83 7:11-PDT Date: 6 Oct 83 15:32:14-PDT (Thu) To: info-cpm@brl From: harpo!floyd!cmcl2!lanl-a!bb@ucb-vax Subject: MP/M-86 question Article-I.D.: lanl-a.2428 My question deals with the MPM functions dealing with System Queue management, ie, MAKE QUEUE, DELETE QUEUE, READ/WRITE QUEUE, etc. My problem is this: I have a detached process that makes and opens the queue. The process at my console opens the same queue and process 1 sends a message to me. It then issues a DELETE QUEUE call and quits. The trouble is that the process at my terminal wont quit! The Queue is not deleted! I am sure the DELETE QUEUE is executed, but nothing seems to happen. After I abort my terminal process I find the queue still there. If I run a simple program to delete that queue and do nothing else that works OK. I am using Computer Innovation's C-86 C compiler. Any info will be appreciated. Thanks. b2 ...ucbvax!{lbl-csam, purdue, cmcl2}!lanl-a!bb Bryan Bingham 14-Oct-83 11:59:38-MDT,3011;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 11:59:25-MDT Received: From Dec-Marlboro.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 14:07 EDT Redistributed-date: 13 Oct 1983 1407-EDT Redistributed-by: Larry Campbell Redistributed-to: info-cpm@brl-vgr Date: 13 Oct 1983 1405-EDT From: Larry Campbell To: Bakin.ESSDPP@hi-multics Subject: Re: DEC Rainbow questions Message-ID: <"MS11(2354)+GLXLIB1(1056)" 11959206852.22.71.13420 at DEC-MARLBORO> References: Message from Bakin.ESSDPP@hi-multics of 13-Oct-83 0053-EDT I'm not aware of any programs that DEC will supply that allow CP/M to read MS-DOS files or vice versa, but there are several independent software producers selling such things. They're not too expensive (all under $100). Lotus 1-2-3 and The Final Word are two software products that I know exist for the Rainbow running MS-DOS. In addition, many software packages written for the IBM PC will run under MS-DOS on the Rainbow. Rainbow MS-DOS can read and write IBM single-sided floppies, either 8- or 9-sector per track. I bought a copy of the Final Word on IBM floppies and it runs just fine on my Rainbow. Note that, as with any other IBM "compatible", programs that "know" about where certain hardware items are and bypass MS-DOS to use them will not work on a Rainbow, or any other PC-look-alike. What this usually means is that programs that do fancy screen formatting (spreadsheets, word processors, etc.) must be customized for the Rainbow (or Compaq or Hyperion or Columbia or ...). "Vanilla" programs, such as most compilers, should work fine on all these machines. I can't answer your compiler questions; unfortunately all the compilers I've seen so far have their own object file formats. Yecch. The Final Word essentially IS a separate screen editor and post-processing formatter; they make it look integrated by allowing you to invoke the formatter from inside the screen editor. I think the Final Word is quite good. My version is just a touch slow, because it's a "generic MS-DOS" version; I expect the Rainbow-specific version I'm getting soon to be lots faster. SELECT is junk; don't waste your time with it. MINCE (by the same folks who do Final Word) is pretty good. In 25 words or less, it's ITS EMACS without TECO. No macros; the closest thing to macros is query replace. SCRIBBLE is a text formatter you can get with it that's sort of a stunted SCRIBE. The Final Word is essentially MINCE with different key bindings and more online help, with SCRIBBLE glued on underneath. It's actually better than it sounds. I got the Final Word because MINCE wasn't available for MS-DOS, and the folks at Mark of the Unicorn seemed to imply that they wanted to phase out MINCE and SCRIBBLE and concentrate on The Final Word. Sorry about the lenght of this... hope it helps. -------- -------- 14-Oct-83 12:10:37-MDT,1116;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 12:10:31-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 14:38 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 14:26 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 10 Oct 83 4:39-PDT Date: 23 Oct 70 23:30:02-PDT (Fri) To: info-cpm@brl From: decvax!wivax!apollo!nazgul@ucb-vax Subject: Re: Wanted: random number generator written in C Article-I.D.: apollo.121 In-Reply-To: Article <1289@ecsvax.UUCP> Although it is probably not relevant in this case, I might mention how the Apple ][ generates it's random number seed for Applesoft Basic (although it is extensible to the Aztec C that I use). Quite simply, everytime it checks to see if a character has been typed at the keyboard (which is everytime it prints a character, or is waiting for input) it increments a counter. That counter then can be used as a reasonably random seed for any random number generator that the user creates. -kee 14-Oct-83 14:50:47-MDT,1196;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 14:50:34-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 17:54 EDT Received: From Simtel20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 17:44 EDT Date: 13 Oct 1983 15:44 MDT (Thu) From: Frank J. Wancho To: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA, INFO-MICRO@BRL.ARPA Subject: Some lists moved The following mailing lists and their archives have been moved to SIMTEL20: List name: AMETHYST-USERS@SIMTEL20 Changes/additions: AMETHYST-USERS-REQUEST@SIMTEL20 Current archives: [SIMTEL20]MICRO:AMETHYST-ARCHIV.TXT Old archives: [SIMTEL20]MICRO:AMETHYST.ARCHIV.31013 List name: INFO-MODEMXX@SIMTEL20 Changes/additions: INFO-MODEMXX-REQUEST@SIMTEL20 Current archives: [SIMTEL20]MICRO:MODEMXX-ARCHIV.TXT Old archives: [SIMTEL20]MICRO:MODEMXX.ARCHIV.31013 List name: NORTHSTAR-USERS@SIMTEL20 Changes/additions: NORTHSTAR-USERS-REQUEST@SIMTEL20 Current archives: [SIMTEL20]MICRO:NORTHSTAR-ARCHIV.TXT Old archives: [SIMTEL20]MICRO:NORTHSTAR.ARCHIV.31013 --Frank 14-Oct-83 15:01:39-MDT,1163;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 15:01:31-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 13 Oct 83 18:39 EDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 13 Oct 83 18:32 EDT Date: Thu 13 Oct 83 18:36:39-EDT From: RMS.G.ALBERS%MIT-OZ@MIT-ML.ARPA Subject: USR Password To: "harpo!eagle!mhuxi!mhuxh!mhuxd!cwc%ml%ucb-vax@mc" %MIT-OZ@MIT-ML.ARPA cc: jalbers%bnl@MIT-MC.ARPA, info-cpm%brl@MIT-MC.ARPA I have used the USR Password for 4 months now, and it is much better than the SmartModem 1200 in that it is cheaper, smaller, it doesn't get as hot, and it comes with FULL documentation. The only thing I don't like about it is that it has no front panel lights (no big problem), and the speaker does not have a volume control, although it has software (user) selectable settings for on, of, and on untill connected (the default), which are done useing the SmartModem commands. It also does not let you set things like how many rings to answer on, ringback answer, etc. Other than those, I think it puts the SmartModem away. Jon Albers ------- 14-Oct-83 15:18:14-MDT,1985;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 15:18:03-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 1:10 EDT Received: From Usc-Isid.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 1:01 EDT Date: 13 Oct 1983 15:51-PDT Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid Subject: Re: help? From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid To: LIN@mit-ml Cc: info-cpm@brl Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]13-Oct-83 15:51:59.ABN.ISCAMS> In-Reply-To: The message of 12 October 1983 21:48 EDT from Herb Lin I'll be glad to download those files for you. I can manage the standard 8" SSSD just fine. Something else though -- have you a modem and a serial port? If so, it's relatively easy to download stuff from the net. Little pieces: use PIPMODEM, which also has the simple terminal capability to net in the first place. I've successfully downloaded 500 80-col lines of text, using PIP's buffer alone (no chance to lose characters that way while PIP writes to disk). Using PIPMODEM, you can bring over a more sophisticated program like MBOOT, which has a little better capability to download larger files. If using your own machine is out of the question (no ports, no modem, no available dial-up ports to the ARPAnet, whatever), sure -- I'll do the disk thing for you. Incidentally, I'm running a Morrow Decision I, whose usual disk format is 8" double sided double density with 1024-byte sectors. If you want high-density like that, can do; also single sided 256, 512, and 1024 byte/sector formats. Alternatively, if you don't have an ARPAnet port, but do have a telephone and 300 or 1200 baud modem, I can always work a civilian telephone line modem download to you. Contact me via ARPAnet at ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID, or call me (work (919)396-6862/5622; AUTOVON 236-6862/5622; home (919) 868-3471 after around 1800 (East Coast time). David Kirschbaum SGM, USA HQ XVIII Abn Corps (civilian persona Toad Hall) 14-Oct-83 15:33:01-MDT,3594;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 15:32:42-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 1:38 EDT Received: From Mit-Ml.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 1:25 EDT Date: 14 October 1983 00:12 EDT From: Herb Lin Subject: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. To: info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl the following is an interchange (about 50 lines) between myself and another info-cpm/info-micro reader, who says my use of these lists has been improper. I request commentary on it; I will CC answers to the list if people so desire. ************* start of interchange ***************** Date: 13 October 1983 23:58 EDT From: Herb Lin To: BYRNE at CMU-CS-C cc: LIN Re: INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO From: BYRNE at CMU-CS-C.ARPA Re: INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO All right, lin, enough is enough! All you ever do is post to these bboard asking for help. You NEVER CONTRIBUTE A DAMN THING! You just use up other people's time asking silly questions. Are you totally incompetent? Or do you just want others to do your working and thinking for you? Incompetent? I don't think so. Ignorant? Probably. I am new to the micro business, and having lost many hours of work in previous programming experience,I am rather hesitant to push my largely outmoded knowledge. Furthermore, my knowledge is general rather than specific, and as you know, general knowledge may help you to understand what is going on (once explained), but it doesn't help to get a specific system running. I see these "I'll summarize and post" things from you, but you never have posted a summary of responses. Two comments here: (1) the number of responses I have gotten for the past year is rather small; thus there has been little to post. I am not complaining, nor do I rule out the possibility that most people who read my questions are like you and would rather not respond. I simply state this as a fact. (2) I have indeed posted responses when there have been more than one (i.e., a summary) which have NOT been CC-ed to the lists directly. Do you think I should post responses which have been sent directly? What if no one expresses interest in a response? Should I simply *assume* that there is an interest? Your quota of postings is up for the year. Please refrain from posting until you can contribute something instead of asking for handouts. I'll leave this one up to the readers of the list. If there is some stated (or implied) policy concerning the use of the lists concerning quotas of questions or types of discussion, I will abide by it. I am operating under the assumption that novice questions are appropriate, even if from the same source a great deal of the time. How about it, INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO? Is this right? Or am I wrong? Am I abusing these lists? I will summarize and post to the list (if I get responses). In addition, I have indeed responded to people who have asked me to share information. By the way...this message has been brewing since Feb of this year, I just got too damned tired of seeing your damned questions this time. If my questions are that onerous to you, my suggestion is to set up your mail reader to flush anything that comes in with my name attached to it. that way, i won't bother you. If your mail reader is BABYL, I can even show you how to do this (assuming you don't know already). 14-Oct-83 15:53:27-MDT,2251;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 15:53:16-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 2:35 EDT Received: From Rochester.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 2:30 EDT Received: by sen.rochester (3.327.3N) id AA15430; 13 Oct 83 17:56:12 EDT (Thu) Received: by cay.Rochester (3.327.3N+) id AA00564; 13 Oct 83 17:57:19 EDT (Thu) Message-Id: <8310132156.15430@sen.rochester> Date: 13 Oct 83 17:56:12 EDT (Thu) From: Mike Ciaraldi Subject: Digital Research C To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA For those who have been following my travails with DRI C for CP/M-86 (R): We are now using Version 1.03 of the compiler, with Version 1.02 of LINK86, and everything looks good. There are problems with using the compiler with version 1.01 of the linkage editor. How I found this out: When Version 1.0 of the compiler showed up several months ago, it sat on a desk for a few days. Then the linker arrived in a separate package, with a note saying it was needed to run the compiler but had inadvertently not been shipped. Both the compiler and linker had "READ.ME" files, and the one for the compiler did say you had to use at least version 1.02 of the linker. It turns out the new disk really had version 1.01 of the linker! If I had paid more attention to the header which the linker prints out when it runs, I would have noticed this. As it is, none of the other users did either. In any event, there were compiler problems which all seem to be fixed with the new version, 1.03. When that version arrived, someone noticed the linker mismatch, and a call to DRI resulted in their sending a copy of linker 1.02. Results: It works! It even compiles and runs under Concurrent CP/M, on both the IBM PC and the Zenith Z-100. We have successfully run multiple tasks, sent queue messages back and forth, and shared blocks of memory. The sample programs compile and run in all 4 memory models, too. One bonus: under CP/M-86, if you are using the compact, medium, or big memory models, you have to invoke you .CMD file with the R command, so it will do segment fixup after loading. Under CCPM this is automatic. 14-Oct-83 16:16:38-MDT,728;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 16:16:34-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 8:34 EDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 8:27 EDT Date: Fri, 14 Oct 83 8:23:35 EDT From: Gregory Hogg To: Herb Lin cc: info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. If you have questions ask them. If some one feels that you ask to many then that person can just not read mail you send, BUT I WILL BE DAMNED if he will prevent me from reading the mail you send. This is still a free country! Greg the Hogg 14-Oct-83 16:43:46-MDT,1407;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 16:43:40-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 11:27 EDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 11:21 EDT Date: Fri, 14 Oct 83 11:08:44 EDT From: A Brinton Cooper III To: Herb Lin cc: info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. Herb, I suspect your adversary has a brain-damaged mail reader. At BRL, if I choose not to read mail from you, I simply type 'delete from Herb Lin' and all your messages go away. What about appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists? These are common user resources; the users determine what's appropriate. If you think that you have legitimate questions, then it is your right to post them to the net. I, too, am a little disappointed by the condition of summaries posted to the net. I suppose that most people read rather than write. Again, that's not any individual's fault, but the fault of all of us, collectively, for failing to help out our fellow person. Byrne's attack on you actually embarrassed me. I suppose anyone can get to a point of frustration. For that, I forgive him and apologize to you. Keep up your questions; many of the rest of us need the answers as well. Brint 14-Oct-83 16:59:49-MDT,1840;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 16:59:42-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 11:40 EDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 11:36 EDT Date: 14 October 1983 10:33 cdt From: Weinstein.Tech_Rep@hi-multics Subject: 5 Mb Hard Disc Drives and TM100-3M Floppy To: info-cpm@brl cc: info-micro@brl, info-trs80@brl For the past two months I have helped several people get 5 Mb Hard Disc Drives. The biggest problem was that I was getting them at $350 and charging $375 ($25 shipping/my gas..etc). The TM 602S sold so fast that they were unavailable for a while. The real problem was that the people that I have a contact with were really selling these drives to OEM's for >$430 and therefore they decided to make more money than and not sell it to people like us. I was able to locate some Segate ST-506 5 Mb drives for $375 ($400 with shipping..etc) for some. The real jist of this message is that I have seen with my own eyes 10 Tandom TM602s (5.25 5 mb hard disc drives....NEW) and I can get them for anyone interested. I can also get 4 ST-506 Drives but they cost $25.00 more. He also has TM100-3M floppies which are single sided 100 TPI(Tracks per inch) and 80 track drives for $160.00. I not sure if messages like this belong on the net and anyone who can suggest a better place would be appreciated. Its just that I feel that if people can get these discs at CHEAP prices..... why not tell people. All of the drives that I have gotten have checked out ok and are new. I would appreciate people directing requests/questions to me directly so that info-cpm and info-micro are not cluttered up any more that what I'm doing now. Dennis 612-425-1813 after 7:30 cst 14-Oct-83 17:16:08-MDT,1351;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 17:16:00-MDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 12:37 EDT Date: 14 October 1983 0909-pdt From: Gary Little Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists To: info-cpm@brl-vgr Vell, sharlie, it appearrs that you have uncovered the dread ten toed bi-ped closet flammer --and he appears to have a severe case of a hair up his butt. Ain't nothin' wurse than a rabid flammer with an infected rectal follicle. Frankly, flammer (Mr. Lin), got a dime? If you don't I will gladly loan you one so that you can call someone who cares. Who appointed you as the guiding light, all around guru and all knowing censor for CPM and MICRO? Questions DO contribute a hell of a lot to lists. One question or comment can function as the catalyst that produces virtually volumes of information. A smart man once said "One man's meat is another man's poison." The question you don't like may be one I am having trouble with and consequently have a great deal of desire to see answered. Yeah, we do get an awful lot of inane and redundant questions. The simple and unobnoxious solution is go on to the next entry. Gary 14-Oct-83 17:26:27-MDT,1531;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 17:26:14-MDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 12:56 EDT Date: 14 October 1983 0909-pdt From: Gary Little Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists To: info-cpm@brl-vgr Oooops, I really don't like to dup messages in MICO and CPM, but I fired for effect on the wrong person in the CPM list. Here it is again with the proper culprit targeted. Vell, sharlie, it appearrs that you have uncovered the dread ten toed bi-ped closet flammer --and he appears to have a severe case of a hair up his butt. Ain't nothin' wurse than a rabid flammer with an infected rectal follicle. Frankly, flammer (Mr. Byrne), got a dime? If you don't I will gladly loan you one so that you can call someone who cares. Who appointed you as the guiding light, all around guru and all knowing censor for CPM and MICRO? Questions DO contribute a hell of a lot to lists. One question or comment can function as the catalyst that produces virtually volumes of information. A smart man once said "One man's meat is another man's poison." The question you don't like may be one I am having trouble with and consequently have a great deal of desire to see answered. Yeah, we do get an awful lot of inane and redundant questions. The simple and unobnoxious solution is go on to the next entry. Gary 14-Oct-83 17:47:08-MDT,742;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 14 Oct 83 17:46:58-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 14 Oct 83 14:28 EDT Received: From Simtel20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 14 Oct 83 14:23 EDT Date: 14 Oct 1983 12:23 MDT (Fri) From: Frank J. Wancho To: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA Subject: Files moved (again!) The files that were in subdirectories under [SIMTEL20]MICRO: have been moved to be under [SIMTEL20]MICRO:. For example, MDM712.COM was in [SIMTEL20]MICRO:, and is now in [SIMTEL20]MICRO:. [SIMTEL20]MICRO:CPM.DIRLST has been updated; [SIMTEL20]MICRO: no longer exists. --Frank 17-Oct-83 08:46:59-MDT,779;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 08:46:54-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 16 Oct 83 14:19 EDT Received: From Usc-Eclb.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 16 Oct 83 14:12 EDT Date: 16 Oct 1983 1104-PDT From: Dick Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. To: LIN%MIT-ML@minet-nap-em cc: info-cpm@brl In-Reply-To: Your message of 14-Oct-83 0012-PDT Bravo! Herb. Some people on this and other lists I have seen really do take themselves much too seriously. I wonder where he was when the "REAL PROGRAMMER" stuff was hip deep? Maybe you are asking questions he can't answer, and it bugs him (?) How's about a big, juicy Bronx cheer!?!?!?! ------- 17-Oct-83 08:48:31-MDT,573;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 08:48:27-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 16 Oct 83 14:40 EDT Received: From Usc-Eclb.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 16 Oct 83 14:38 EDT Date: 16 Oct 1983 1138-PDT From: Dick Subject: S100 controller for PRIAM hard disk??? To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl Does anyone happen to know of any S100 hard disk controllers that support the Priam 1070 8" hard disk drive, with or without the Priam Smart interface? ------- 17-Oct-83 08:49:29-MDT,1726;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 08:49:20-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 16 Oct 83 19:16 EDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 16 Oct 83 19:07 EDT Date: 16 October 1983 00:01 pdt From: Bakin.SSID@hi-multics Subject: Re: DEC Rainbow questions To: Ted Hess cc: info-cpm@brl In-Reply-To: Message of 14 October 1983 19:19 pdt from Ted Hess Thanks for that info! I gather MS-languages to include Pascal and Fortran? Hopefully, Pascal can call Fortran and vice versa? I am waiting to hear just a bit more before buying. I have one major concern that you might explain to me and info-cpm? I have used DEC-10s, DEC-20s, PDP-11s, and various Vaxen.... While I have noticed enormous amounts of software available from third party vendors for each of those machines, the primary writer was DEC. I can expect no one but Digital to have any real interest in keeping the Rainbow alive. Hence, I can expect no one but Digital to write complete systems for the Rainbow, be it mutually callable languages, OS updates, Mail Systems, what have you. Yet as far as I can tell, DEC has not written much for the Rainbow. This seems to leave a gaping hole which cannot be filled by third parties. What are DEC's future plan's for the Rainbow? They now have CP/M and MSDOS, what about a multitasking OS? CCPM? Unix? How about some munged version of RT or RSX that supports DCL? (RT-86?) It seems horribly brain damaged that DEC doesn't write software for its machine. Please! Tell me why I'm wrong in that opinion! Jerry Bakin 17-Oct-83 08:49:49-MDT,982;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 08:49:42-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 16 Oct 83 19:47 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 16 Oct 83 19:45 EDT From: ssalzman.es@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Date: 16 Oct 83 12:44:14 PDT Subject: rigid backup utilities To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA Hi. Does anyone have (or reccomend) a good rigid backup utility, public domain or commercial? I need it for a database system I wrote in dbase-ii. Currently I'm using ZCPR2 utilities for backup, but I need something that will automaic- ally handle spreading files across several disks, and user friendly. I just want to be able to say 'backup d:=a:*.dbf' and have the program take care of prompting the user for switching floppies. It should also be able to split a file across several floppies in the case that it wont fit. Thanks for your help. -Isaac. Ssalzman.es@PARC-MAXC 17-Oct-83 10:14:30-MDT,904;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 10:14:24-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 17 Oct 83 11:35 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 17 Oct 83 11:33 EDT Date: 17 Oct. 1983 3:20 pm (Monday) From: HIRST.RX@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Re: "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" In-reply-to: greg@brl-bmd.ARPA's message of Thu, 13 Oct 83 10:31:33 EDT To: Gregory Hogg cc: info-cpm@brl.ARPA Greg, Well, I have the book and intend getting the software disk that's available also. We had the author, Andy Johnson-Laird along at our last Chiltern CP/M user group meeting and although he did not talk much on his excellent book, he did give a marvelous presentation on CP/M-86 (& concurrent). It may be possible to direct some questions to him, if you want, //Ken 17-Oct-83 11:23:27-MDT,595;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 11:23:23-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 17 Oct 83 12:32 EDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 17 Oct 83 12:29 EDT Date: Mon, 17 Oct 83 12:25:05 EDT From: Gregory Hogg To: info-cpm@brl Subject: DSDD can it read SSSD disks Hello, Can a Double Sided Double Density disk drive read/write Single Sided Single Density disks? This question is for both 8 inch and 5 1/4 inch drives. Greg the Hogg 17-Oct-83 14:43:30-MDT,781;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 14:43:21-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 17 Oct 83 15:53 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 17 Oct 83 15:51 EDT Date: 17 Oct 83 12:50:32 PDT (Monday) From: Chapman.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. In-reply-to: LIN's message of 14 Oct 83 00:12 EDT To: Herb Lin cc: info-micro@brl.ARPA, info-cpm@brl.ARPA Herb I don't see anything wrong with your asking questions. I suspect that if anyone asked a question that you could answer, you would respond. I think that the dls are very useful as a question/answer forum. Cheryl (Chapman.ES @ PARC-MAXC.ARPA) 17-Oct-83 20:05:41-MDT,2766;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 20:05:29-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 17 Oct 83 21:43 EDT Received: From Usc-Isid.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 17 Oct 83 21:34 EDT Date: 17 Oct 1983 10:00-PDT Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid Subject: Church Support Software Distribution From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid To: INFO-CPM@brl Cc: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]17-Oct-83 10:00:40.ABN.ISCAMS> Friends in Netland: A few weeks ago I replied to an individual asking about software to support church administration, offering a program of mine. About six people jumped in and offered to test it, look at it, accept it no matter what it was, etc. Well, I finally have Toad Hall's KERMIT up and running, and I've transferred my church program up into ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID (my directory). The files involved are: MBRS.BAS.1 The runnable version (no comments) MBRSCMT.BAS.1 The bigger one, full of comments, that overflows 64K of memory, so don't even try it! MBRS.DOC.1 The operator's manual and commentary/explanation. The program is in Microsoft BASIC (version 5.something), is formatted for an 80-column screen or printer, and has only a very few machine or terminal-unique items (Clear Screen, Cursor Addressing a la common terminals (ESC,=,32+vertical, 32+horizontal), and a special debugging section (you don't have to use it) that uses the Freedom 100's special ability to display but not act on control characters so you can look directly at records with their data separators, relative file LSET's, etc.) You can weed all them out if you want. I tried to make it pretty simple to use, but the code AIN'T SO SIMPLE! Example: To get 13 weeks of regular donations, 13 special donation names, and 13 weeks of special donations into one FIELD line isn't easy, much less trying to fit all the data into a 126-character record. So...I MKI$'ed or MKS$'ed them all and concatenated them! Flashy, works fine, nice and tight, but lord, don't try to figure the code! All are welcome to download via FTP and try them out on their micros (unless you happen to have Microsoft BASIC running on your Cray). I only ask that you tell me the name and address of the church (or person) using it so I can help with bugs, updates, and just get a good personal feeling out of it all! (Why give it away? Well, I owe a lot to those public domain authors out there, but from actual useful utilities and the chance to learn from their documentation and programs. Even KERMIT came free! So this is a small payback.) David Kirschbaum SGM, USA (civilian persona Toad Hall) 17-Oct-83 20:08:24-MDT,1900;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 20:08:16-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 17 Oct 83 21:43 EDT Received: From Usc-Isid.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 17 Oct 83 21:36 EDT Date: 17 Oct 1983 10:41-PDT Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid Subject: Re: DSDD can it read SSSD disks From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid To: greg@brl-bmd Cc: info-cpm@brl Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]17-Oct-83 10:41:24.ABN.ISCAMS> In-Reply-To: The message of Mon, 17 Oct 83 12:25:05 EDT from Gregory Hogg Greg: Mine can -- donno if that's a function of my wonderful drives (Morrow Decision I with 8"DSD - I think a Tandon, but forget the model #), or a function of the Morrow CBIOS that has all the different density formats built in. Not quite sure how the CBIOS decides what it's reading, but I cheerfully read and write to IBM SSSD and SSDD disks I've formatted on my own system, AND other disks formatted and written to by some sort of 8" drive in a Santa Clara 10Meg hard disk. Now the Santa Clara (with their CP/M for a 56K Apple) won't read mine, no way, not even in SSSD (something funny about my sectors, I think - I can only go down to 256-byte sectors with my disk formatter), but I have no trouble reading it. If I format the disks on the Santa Clara, I can fill the disk on my drive and the Santa Clara can read it just fine. Hope that's an answer. PS: I got some Cromemco 5 1/4 disks in from Langley AFB (I think Cromemco), supposedly SSSD soft sector, but be damned if my CP/M Apple can read them! Donno why - I don't like the Apple so very much, and my disassembly of Santa Clara's CP/M and the original Microsoft 48K CP/M is not yet complete, so I don't have a clear picture of the disk drivers yet. Regards. David Kirschbaum SGM, USA (civilian persona Toad Hall) 17-Oct-83 21:12:26-MDT,1859;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 17 Oct 83 21:12:11-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 17 Oct 83 22:26 EDT Received: From Amsaa.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 17 Oct 83 22:19 EDT Date: Mon, 17 Oct 83 22:07:16 EDT From: David Towson (CSD) To: Gregory Hogg cc: info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: DSDD can it read SSSD disks Greg - Yes, a double-side double-density DISK DRIVE can read and write single-side single-density disks. HOWEVER, there is more to this than the disk drive alone. The controller and software must also work with the single-side single-density format. As far as the drive itself is concerned, single-side single-density just uses one head and a different encoding scheme. The bit-rate is the same for both single and double density, but the bits are used "more economically" in double density, giving an increase in storage capacity by a factor of about 1.8(not actually 2). It is the controller that encodes and decodes the data, and it is also the controller that determines which head is used at any given time. Some double-side systems treat each side as a separate disk having its own separate directory. Other double-side systems treat both sides as a single volume having a single directory. The difference is determined by the software that does disk I/O. In summary then,the drive is able to handle either format, and the single-chip disk controllers that I know of for double-density can also handle single density(however, I don't claim to know about all available single-chip controllers), but the software in a particular system may or may not be able to switch the disk controller to either format. Dave 18-Oct-83 08:34:48-MDT,559;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 08:34:44-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 1:37 EDT Received: From Brl-Vgr.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 18 Oct 83 1:27 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Oct 83 1:25:53 EDT From: Ron Natalie To: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid cc: LIN@mit-ml, info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. Good god. Don't mention HAM and Children's Band in the same breath. -Ron 18-Oct-83 08:35:39-MDT,847;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 08:35:35-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 2:51 EDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 18 Oct 83 2:48 EDT Date: 18 October 1983 02:48 EDT From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists. To: LIN@mit-ml cc: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl In-reply-to: Msg of 14 Oct 1983 00:12 EDT from Herb Lin Holy Catfish! When dealing with churlish people, there is no appropriate response, I suppose. Query: HOW DO you use BABYL to flush messages from someone you don't want to hear from? I certainly don't know, and I suspect there are a dozen others who would like to know (and didn't know it was possible.) Keep smiling. 18-Oct-83 08:36:47-MDT,4232;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 08:36:31-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 3:33 EDT Received: From Rochester.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 18 Oct 83 3:31 EDT Received: by sen.rochester (3.327.3N) id AA26195; 17 Oct 83 22:57:41 EDT (Mon) Received: by cay.Rochester (3.327.3N+) id AA06336; 17 Oct 83 22:59:05 EDT (Mon) Message-Id: <8310180257.26195@sen.rochester> Date: 17 Oct 83 22:57:41 EDT (Mon) From: Mike Ciaraldi Subject: Re: DSDD can it read SSSD disks To: greg@brl-bmd.ARPA, info-cpm@brl.ARPA The question can be divided into several sub-questions, with different answers: 1) The drives themselves--I have never encountered a drive which works for DSDD than would not also work on SSSD. The problem we used to have, before DD became so widespread, is that some drives could not handle the DD, but that was several years ago. 2) The controller. The way data is stored on the disk, i.e. the pattern of data and clock pulses going to the read/write head and ultimately onto the media, is controlled by the circuitry of the controller and the controller chip. The most common chips, e.g. Western Digital 179x series, can handle both, and most modern controllers handle both, under software control. In short, older controllers could often handle only SD, almost all modern contollers can handle both DD and SD. Concerning SS vs. DS., this is again a chip/board question, and the controllers that have DS should be able to run SS with no problem. Aside--J. Pournelle's column in the new Byte asks if you can use SS 8-inch drives on a Zenith Z-100. I have certainly used SSSD diskettes on such a system, but the drives themselves were DS. 3) Software. The IBM PC always uses DD, whether SS or DS. In gneral, drivers can be written to handle both, and, in fact, the newest versions of CP/M have explicit places in the Disk Parameter Header and Disk Parameter Block for recording number of tracks/sector, etc. These data tables are within the operating system, but the actual driver could ignore them, I suppose. The most common way to hnadle the differing densities and other formats is something like this: the driver itself can handle several types of disk formats, and uses the info in the DPH and DPB to decide things like how many bytes to transfer in each read or write operation. How do the data tables get set up? An older way was to make it an explicit command. e.g. a keyboard command that made drive B: DSDD. Woe unto you if you stuck a SS or SD disk in that drive! Another way was to give alternate names to the drives, e.g. A: and B: would be physical drives 1 and 2; (assumed SSSD) referring to C: and D: gave you the same physical drives, but formatted DSDD. Again, if you stuck the wrong disk in you would be in trouble. More modern software switches automatically whenever you log in a diskette. It works like this: the driver reads the first track and sector of the new disk. (and possibly other sectors, too). If it cannot read them SD, it tries DD. If it cannot read the second side, it must be SS, etc. A more common way is to encode the format info in the first sector of the first track, e.g. by storing the data from the DPB and DPH, or by just storing a code number. The problem there is that different manufacturers' formats and code numvbers are not the same. Since the first sector usually contains the boot loader, this format code starts several bytes in, leaving room for a jump instruction. Other wrinkles: for compatibility with older formats which do not have encoding, e.g. CP/M standard 8-inch SSSD (same as IBM 3740), there has to be some default. Also, on an 8-inch diskette, the index hole is in a different place depending on whether the diskette itself is SS or DS. This is a little long-winded, I'm afraid, but I hope it answers your questions. I just got done writing drivers for the Z-100, that's why I know some of the tricks they use. If anyone else has more info, I'm sure the net would like to hear about it. Mike Ciaraldi ciaraldi@rochester 18-Oct-83 11:10:53-MDT,764;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 11:10:49-MDT Received: From Nadc.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 12:32 EDT Date: 18 Oct 1983 12:27:12-EDT From: reece@nadc To: info-micro@brl-vgr Subject: new Morrow computer Cc: info-cpm@brl-vgr I have a brochure for a Morrow Micro-Decision model MD-11 which has a built-in 11 Meg Winnie and a DS/DD floppy. It lists for $2200 (i think). It comes with all the standard software plus a special word processor package previously sold only with the MorrorWriter. It uses the Z-29 terminal (same price as the MDT-20). Oh, it has 128k memory and CP/M 3.0 plus 3 serial ports, 1 Centronics port, and 1 RS-422 port. Seems like a good deal. 18-Oct-83 12:20:05-MDT,1388;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 12:19:57-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 13:45 EDT Received: From Simtel20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 18 Oct 83 13:29 EDT Date: 18 Oct 1983 11:28 MDT (Tue) Message-ID: <[SIMTEL20].WANCHO.18-Oct-83 11:28:37> From: Frank J. Wancho To: INFO-CPM@brl Subject: Problems with SIG/M and CPMUG files We are finding an alarmingly large number of files in the SIG/M and CPMUG set on the SIMTEL20 have CRCs which do not match the documented values. This was NOT caused by MODEM, but by flakey disk drives used for an intermediate disk-to-disk copy step. Those drives were suspect for some time, and have now been pulled for alignment. (Unfortunately, the CRCs were checked against the "bad" disk instead of the original or the documentation files.) I fear that we may have to re-upload the entire set of 151 disks as well as the 60 new ones that I'm in the process of converting to 5-1/4" N* format for upload. While we sort this all out, we ask you to double-check the CRCs of any files you may have FTP'd from either MICRO: or MICRO: against those listed in the CRC lists in their respective volumes before using those files. We are extremely sorry for this inconvenience. --Frank 18-Oct-83 13:11:59-MDT,961;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 13:11:53-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 14:35 EDT Received: From Amsaa.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 18 Oct 83 14:33 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Oct 83 14:22:34 EDT From: David Towson (CSD) To: Frank J. Wancho cc: INFO-CPM@brl Subject: Re: Problems with SIG/M and CPMUG files Frank - I have discovered that every assembler file that I have downloaded from the SIG/M collection has had every occurrence of CR/LF changed to CR CR LF. I have used the CP/M editor to get rid of the extra CR's and have had no trouble assembling the resulting files. I did the transfers from SIMTEL20 to a VAX/UNIX machine using FTP in TENEX mode. Might this exper- ience shed some light on your problem? Dave 18-Oct-83 19:23:26-MDT,923;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 18 Oct 83 19:23:22-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 18 Oct 83 20:58 EDT Received: From Sri-Kl.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 18 Oct 83 20:52 EDT Date: Tue 18 Oct 83 17:48:00-PDT From: Jon L. Spear Subject: Whither MARC? ZCPR vs. uSHELL? To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... we heard about the soon to be announced MARC system, a souped up CP/M compatible operating system written in BDS-C and giving you ZCPR2 features and more. What happened to it? Has anyone done a comparison of micro-Shell and ZCPR2 (and MARC)? If not, could someone venture a comparison? I recently upgraded my Osborne-I with a 380K DriveC RAMdisk, and it works great. Will any of the above CCP replacements work with it? Tnx, Jon ------- 19-Oct-83 15:14:48-MDT,601;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 19 Oct 83 15:14:43-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 19 Oct 83 16:48 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 19 Oct 83 16:37 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Oct 83 08:53 EDT From: Platteter.Henr@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: Re: DSDD can it read SSSD disks In-reply-to: "greg@brl-bmd.ARPA's message of Mon, 17 Oct 83 12:25:05 EDT" To: Gregory Hogg cc: info-cpm@brl.ARPA Most certainly can. At least the Shugert and Remex versions I know for sure. 20-Oct-83 08:59:11-MDT,13923;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 20 Oct 83 08:58:31-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 20 Oct 83 2:06 EDT Received: From Mit-Ml.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 20 Oct 83 1:59 EDT Date: 20 October 1983 02:01 EDT From: Herb Lin Subject: appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists... To: info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl cc: LIN@mit-ml About two weeks ago, I forwarded to these lists an exchange between myself and another person who believed that the ratio of my questions to the list to the information I provided to the list was unacceptably high. I asked the list to comment, since I was looking for advice. Here are the replies I got from the lists. I have edited out names so as to not violate privacy. Also, I got a number of messages (about three) which said they agreed with another respondant, but I had edited out the names by then, and so I couldn't tell with whom they were agreeing. Sorry. In addition, two messages were incomprehensible. One other point: I should ** NOT ** have included the name of the person who sent me mail complaining about my use of the lists the in the first place; this was a serious breach of privacy, and I have apologized to him. I feel particularly bad that people directed to him personally abusive mail. I forwarded the substance of the correspondence to the list, because I wanted guidance, and I have no regrets about that, but in my view abusive mail has no business on the lists under any circumstances. Please let this msg be the end of this saga this time. Herb Lin ********************** If you have questions ask them. If some one feels that you ask to many then that person can just not read mail you send, BUT I WILL BE DAMNED if he will prevent me from reading the mail you send. This is still a free country! *************************** I suspect your adversary has a brain-damaged mail reader. At BRL, if I choose not to read mail from you, I simply type 'delete from Herb Lin' and all your messages go away. What about appropriate use of CPM and MICRO lists? These are common user resources; the users determine what's appropriate. If you think that you have legitimate questions, then it is your right to post them to the net. I, too, am a little disappointed by the condition of summaries posted to the net. I suppose that most people read rather than write. Again, that's not any individual's fault, but the fault of all of us, collectively, for failing to help out our fellow person. Byrne's attack on you actually embarrassed me. I suppose anyone can get to a point of frustration. For that, I forgive him and apologize to you. Keep up your questions; many of the rest of us need the answers as well. ********************** Herb and Byrne, Two comments. First, use of the list, policys on messages, and general message content are all controlled by the LIST MANAGER. This is currently Ron Natalie RON@BRL-VGR and he should be the one to get any complaints on how it is run. Secondly, mailing lists are a source of discussion, learning, and experience dictating on micros. One cannot simply wait for information to spew forth from the more knowledgeable users, it usually has to be asked for. Often, there may be only one or two people who can answer a particular query and consequently there may be only a few responses. If you are waiting anxiously for a series of posted reponses let the person know and I am sure he/she will gladly forward copies of any responses to you. To wrap it up, the INFO-MICRO list is DESIGNED to be a question and answer forum for a large user base, with new members arriving and leaving every day. Not everyone provides all answers, and not everyone is all questions. However anyone can be one or the other and still be perfectly within the scope of this list. Misuse consists of advertising commericial ventures, products, or services, public name calling (this is an open forum you know) and possibly sending the message that generated this response, in the future keep your personal differences to yourself or message RON@BRL-VGR.ARPA or have your name removed from the list. The choice is yours. ************************* Vell, sharlie, it appearrs that you have uncovered the dread ten toed bi-ped closet flammer --and he appears to have a severe case of a hair up his butt. Ain't nothin' wurse than a rabid flammer with an infected rectal follicle. Frankly, flammer (Mr. Byrne), got a dime? If you don't I will gladly loan you one so that you can call someone who cares. Who appointed you as the guiding light, all around guru and all knowing censor for CPM and MICRO? Questions DO contribute a hell of a lot to lists. One question or comment can function as the catalyst that produces virtually volumes of information. A smart man once said "One man's meat is another man's poison." The question you don't like may be one I am having trouble with and consequently have a great deal of desire to see answered. Yeah, we do get an awful lot of inane and redundant questions. The simple and unobnoxious solution is go on to the next entry. *********************** I must agree with you. This (info-micro and info-cpm) is a forum for exchange of ideas and assistance in solving perplexing situations. I am, unfortunatly, also ignorant in grass-roots computing and have only a general knowledge. Therefore, I welcome the chance to question the "masters" , "experts" or anyone with more expertise in this area than I. I consider this forum more of a learning experience than a "mailing list" per se. ************************ Approximately 1 message out of 50 on this list is of interest to me, so I'm obliged to wade thru the trash looking for these little "pearls". It never occured to me to suggest that the trash generators should "shut up". Perhaps you should simply ignore BYRNE and let *him* take his case to the dl directly. I suspect a lot of defenders for your cause would spontaneously arise. In particular, while wading thru the miles of trash, I often see some interesting question brought up by the likes of yourself, and though I'd scarcely feel like replying, I sure hate to see such questionings ruled out. ************************** I don't even remember your specific questions, so they couldn't have annoyed me very much. On the other hand, I'm even more of a novice than you in the CPM world. I occasionally get annoyed when someone asks a question that could have been answered by a casual reading of readily available documentation - were yours of that nature? Also, I'm getting the feeling that too many of the people on the list are too modest. There aren't enough of the "Gee, look at this neat {little trick I just discovered, little hack I just wrote, etc}" kind of messages. Perhaps this reticence is because there are too many of the "Why are you wasting our time with these {amateur, obvious, stupid, etc} contributions?" kind of messages. ********************* I too have asked a lot of questions, being new to the micro world. I haven't been hassled by intolerant folks of the sort quoted in your message- just lucky I guess. I like the freedom to ask dumb questions and the very kind responses I've gotten to many. I too have not contributed much to the list- others are much better qualified and I am as yet a CPM wizard's apprentice- but many local folks have not asked dumb questions, because I've shared the net wisdom garnered from my questioning. Count one vote in your favor and please feel free to forward my response. ******************** Sorry to say, but the majority of your messages are QUITE obnoxious. Feel free to continue to send them - but do your best to give them serious thought before you do; check all your spelling, general format of the message, and try to (this is all the mailer sent to me - HL) *************************** Sorry to hear about the flap on CPM mailing list... I got hassled once for posting messages that were specific to cpm apples. The people on the list said I was being reasonable, though, when I asked them much as you have done. My money says to ignore the gripe and continue on as before. I'd also suggest that you do indeed assume there is interest in any info you receive in response to queries and post it to the list. In fact I assumed that was what you were doing all along, so I'm now confused -- were you in fact only posting summaries when you got additional messages from people requesting copies of info you obtained? In any case, I think its appropriate to ask questions on the list! (What do you say, NETLAND? Should I make this assumption?) ****************************** I HAVE NO COMPLAINTS ON HOW YOU USE THE MAILER AND INFO NETS. I OFTEN FIND MANY OF THE QUESTINS ONES THAT I MYSELF AM CURIOUS ABOUT. ****************************** I agree with you completely, Herb. I have been on these lists for several years and have just been able to add meaningful information in the last six months. (In defense of myself, I have been a heavy TRSDOS/LDOS user and just started into CP/M. One other thing that you forgot to mention was that of any ten responses to a request for information, eight will be asking for you to forward on any other info that comes into your mailbox. I also thought that your message asking for feedback was well written and has less flame than an old bottle of Tabasco sauce. I doubt that I would have responded so civily. **************************** Herb - I have not been the least bit bothered by your questions. I feel that the whole idea of interest-group mail would be compromised if people were to insist on a rigid accounting of give and take. In other words, "your back needs scratching when it itches, not on schedule". Of course, one can abuse this kind of relationship, but I have no reason to suspect that you will not contribute when you have reached "critical mass" in the micro-field and have something to contribute. The only thing that I find really annoying on these mail-lists is grumbling. I don't mind people asking questions, but I feel that grumbling wastes my time. So as far as I'm concerned, ask away. ***************** Herb, maybe there is such a thing as "abusing the net-public", I would imagine so, but I have NO opinion about your guilt of such an offense. But I am certain that there is a polite and an impolite way of addressing someone else, and I can't stand impoliteness and arrogance the way your "adversary" expressed himself. takes all his credibility away, in my book anyway, and I support your complaint for that reason, if for no other. Keep on trucking. I don't post this, as I feel that it is unfortunate that it even needed bringing up, and hope the topic dies down soon. But I agree, when uncertain, ask if the "general public" feels offended by your actions. ***************************** Bravo! Herb. Some people on this and other lists I have seen really do take themselves much too seriously. I wonder where he was when the "REAL PROGRAMMER" stuff was hip deep? Maybe you are asking questions he can't answer, and it bugs him (?) How's about a big, juicy Bronx cheer!?!?!?! **************************** (the following msg was sent to BYRNE, who forwarded it to me; I have deleted some of the personal attacks against him which it contained.) I don't know where you get your ideas of how the mailing lists should be run, but I must ask you to look at the first archive file which has the opening msg. in it. It says that the Info-MICRO list is for "the aid of all microcomputer users, no matter how much experience they have.". The archives in Info-CPM say likewise. **************************** herb, i have been on this list for about 12-15 months now and have never seen any "quotas" discussed or imposed on this net. i also am sure there is no "required level of knowledge" to participate in its use. i believe you have, in the message from this person non-persona,a very good example of the inappropriate use of these lists. i wonder how many fingers on how many hands, it would take to count this guy's contributions to the net?? anyway,keep asking the questions,usualy there are many others who can profit by the answers. **************************** This list is for exchange of information. If no-one asked any questions, no-one would give any answers. **************************** I don't see anything wrong with your asking questions. I suspect that if anyone asked a question that you could answer, you would respond. I think that the dls are very useful as a question/answer forum. ********************** You can qoute me as being on your side: I don't see any reason for this forum to be used as communications among equals. The great part of it is that those whoe know less can learn form those who know more. *************************** Agree with your response. I often find the questions as useful as the responses. ************************ Holy Catfish! When dealing with churlish people, there is no appropriate response, I suppose. ********************* While I am a novice of the net-mail-list world, I have never heard of (and would be BITTERLY dissapointed to hear of) any type of quota or limit imposed on the number of questions asked. If I were you, I would just remember that there are a lot more horses asses than horses in the world and write this guy off. ************************* Re: Your Byrne friend Sue the sucker.... 21-Oct-83 09:44:26-MDT,553;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 21 Oct 83 09:44:22-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 20 Oct 83 21:23 EDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 20 Oct 83 21:14 EDT Date: 20 October 1983 20:10 cdt From: Weinstein.Tech_Rep@hi-multics Subject: FORTPLUS? To: info-cpm@brl HNYas anyone ever heard of a FORTRAN Compiler called FORTPLUS or anything like that. Who invented it...who sells it... any info would be appreciated.. thx Dennis 21-Oct-83 10:10:04-MDT,1046;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 21 Oct 83 10:09:58-MDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 21 Oct 83 7:17 EDT Date: Fri, 21 Oct 83 7:12:03 EDT From: Charlie Strom (NYU) To: ihnp4!cbosgd!mark@ucb-vax cc: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr Subject: Adam The Coleco Adam is still a twinkle in our collective eye; I have no knowledge of anyone actually obtaining one yet, though my local dealer claims to have one on the way for me. I may be throwing my $ away, but its illuminating to be the first on the block... The system includes the game unit at the base orice; a lower cost version is supposed to adapt to the existing game, but I do not know if it will immediately be available. The operating system is supposedly purchased from Infosoft (remember IOS?) IOS was one of the several CP/M act-alikes floating around in the 1.4 days; I do hope the Coleco has 2.2 compatibility. More if and when I get my hands on the unit. 21-Oct-83 10:11:47-MDT,1289;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 21 Oct 83 10:11:39-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 21 Oct 83 8:40 EDT Received: From Radc-Tops20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 21 Oct 83 8:30 EDT Date: Fri 21 Oct 83 08:29:09-EDT From: Gern Subject: Regarding Clarkson's CP/M-85 Lisp To: INFO-MICRO@BRL.ARPA cc: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA To all the people wondering about the CP/M-85 Lisp I have mentioned in past BBOARDs: I have sent the software and hardcopy DOC to Sol Libes. I obtained the author's permission verbally to give it out. SIG/M requires more than that, they, of course, need it in writing. But before I bother Dr. Bray (author) again, we are trying to get the thing to work, as none of us can make any sense of it. It may be a crock program and worthy of DEL (ERA for all you CP/Mers). At any rate, I currently lack the means to upload the programs to the net, and I am leaving the evaluations of if it is a working program or not to Sol. It may not be good enough for SIG/M disk Library, or just a waste of SIMTEL's disk space. Sol, it is up to you (and Steve)... I just want to get my Lisp copy of ANIMAL to run... Cheers, Gern ------- 21-Oct-83 10:32:34-MDT,701;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 21 Oct 83 10:32:29-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 21 Oct 83 10:08 EDT Received: From Radc-Multics.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 21 Oct 83 10:01 EDT Date: 21 October 1983 10:00 edt From: Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics Subject: BASCOM Patch To: INFO-CPM@brl I have recently upgraded systems from the Heathkit H-89 to the H-120. I fully expected all 8080 CP/M software to be useable on the new machine. I found that the Microsoft Basic Compiler (BASCOM) will not function correctly. Does anyone have the patch necessary to allow this to work under CP/M-85? 21-Oct-83 12:23:51-MDT,1196;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 21 Oct 83 12:23:45-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 21 Oct 83 13:09 EDT Date: Fri, 21 Oct 83 13:01:05 EDT From: Keith Petersen To: Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics cc: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr Subject: Re: BASCOM Patch If you bought your BASCOM directly from Heath it contains a routine that checks to make sure it's running under Heath's implementation of CP/M. Since you changed operating systems, this would not return the correct information and would prevent the program from running. This patch was done by Heath to prevent non-Heath users from buying Microsoft programs from Heath and running them on non-Heath systems. Heath sells Microsoft programs cheaper than you can get them elsewhere. Contact Heath for patching details. They may be unwilling to provide this information if you are trying to use the same software on two systems (software is licensed for only one machine). If you decide to try to find the routine yourself, look at it with DDT to see what BASCOM does after you enter it at 100H. --Keith 21-Oct-83 15:35:12-MDT,425;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 21 Oct 83 15:35:06-MDT Received: From Office-3.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 21 Oct 83 16:46 EDT Date: 21 Oct 1983 1344-PDT From: Wayne Culbertson Subject: NEW SUBSCRIBER To: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr cc: CULBERTSON@BRL-VGR.ARPA HI! COULD YOU PLEASE ADD ME TO THE DIGEST. THANK YOU, WAYNE ------- 24-Oct-83 09:07:59-MDT,758;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:07:55-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 22 Oct 83 11:38 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 22 Oct 83 11:30 EDT Date: Sat, 22 Oct 83 11:30 EDT From: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: MDM711 in Fortran To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA cc: Thieret.WBST@PARC-MAXC.ARPA I understand that a program using the Christensen protocols for file transfer has been written in Fortran for non-CP/M (mainframe) systems. Is this software in the public domain ? Does anyone out there have it ? I really need a copy of it ASAP. Please message me if you know about it/have it to give away. Thanks, Tracy. 24-Oct-83 09:09:37-MDT,830;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:09:33-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 22 Oct 83 17:35 EDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 22 Oct 83 17:34 EDT Date: Fri 21 Oct 83 22:08:50-EDT From: Edward Huang Subject: Re: BASCOM Patch To: Wiedemann.4506i1808@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA cc: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA In-Reply-To: Message from "Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics" of Fri 21 Oct 83 10:00:00-EDT Hello, the Heath BASCOM has a security patch so that it could only be run under Heath H89 systems -- I am not yet accustomed to the new SIMTEL system so you may want to ask someone on retreiving it. I belive its in a note along with FORTRAN and MACRO-80 patches. good luck. ------- 24-Oct-83 09:12:10-MDT,897;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:12:05-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 23 Oct 83 3:45 EDT Received: From Rand-Relay.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 23 Oct 83 3:35 EDT Date: 21 Oct 83 16:16-EDT (Fri) From: Stephen Allen Return-Path: Subject: What's the best 8088 operating system To: INFO-CPM@brl Cc: ece660aa.umass-ece@rand-relay Via: UMASS-ECE; 21 Oct 83 19:52-PDT Hello all, I have a Rainbow 100 that uses CP/M 86 (& CP/M 80). I also have MS-DOS. I would like some opinions as to what people consider the most powerful operating system for the 8086 or 8088 is. I've heard that UNIX is available on many micros now. Does any one know if it will become availble for the 8088 ? Steve 24-Oct-83 09:19:46-MDT,1110;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:19:41-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 23 Oct 83 19:49 EDT Date: Sun, 23 Oct 83 19:45:42 EDT From: Keith Petersen To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr Subject: Drive/User bug in SQ-17 The following is forwarded from my RCPM... --- There is a bug in SQ17 when using BDS C drive/user prefix notation. SQ17 will actually place the prefix into the squeezed file and write the output file to the source drive rather than the default drive. This only happens when using BDS C style drive/user combinations. Example: A1>SQ 0/H:MDM712.ASM ; MDM712.AQM is placed, erroneously, on drive H and has to be ; moved to A1. A1>USQ MDM712.AQM ; (If you do this and don't have a drive H: you're in deep trouble!) MDM712.AQM --> 0/H:MDM712.ASM USQ20 will place the output file on H0:. The result, with USQ119, is a file named "0/H" on A1: !!! Possible remedy: 1. Avoid U/D: whenever possible. 2. Disable U/D in the runtime package. 24-Oct-83 09:26:48-MDT,1012;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:26:42-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 23 Oct 83 23:28 EDT Received: From Sri-Kl.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 23 Oct 83 23:27 EDT Date: Sun 23 Oct 83 20:22:09-PDT From: Jon L. Spear Subject: Re: Adam To: strom@BRL-BMD.ARPA cc: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA In-Reply-To: Message from "Charlie Strom (NYU) " of Fri 21 Oct 83 09:09:30-PDT I saw a display copy of the Adam at the Markline store in Waltham, Mass on Sat 22 Oct. They had just received their first customer shipment the day before. If I ordered one today they said the wait would be about 4 weeks. Their price is $675. I didn't have much time to play with it. The word processor in ROM is pretty simple, slightly slow but servicable. Keyboard is nice. Printer is s l o w (<10 cps) and very noisy. Didn't see the cassette drive or game cartridges in action. ------- 24-Oct-83 09:32:46-MDT,1262;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:32:40-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 2:07 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 2:04 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 23 Oct 83 22:54-PDT Date: 19 Oct 83 14:59:51-PDT (Wed) To: info-cpm@brl From: decvax!wivax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!mts@ucb-vax Subject: wanted: BIOS's for Compupro equipment Article-I.D.: utcsrgv.2521 I am loooking for the following for a Compupro 8/16 system: CP/M-80 bios - a reasonably advanced one that would support one or more of the folowing: - interrupt driven IO - typeahead - some sort of disk cache-ing - a larger TPA (~62k) implemented by using the 8088 for the system calls. - support for software M-drive. CP/M-816 bios - a switch mechanism to automatically select the right operating system depending on command file type. Any help with the above would be appreciated. I would also like to hear from anyone who has done any hacking along these lines. Martin Stanley {decwrl,ihnp4}!utcsrgv!utai!mts or ...decvax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!utai!mts or (416) 961-4778 anytime 24-Oct-83 09:38:38-MDT,598;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:38:34-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 4:25 EDT Received: From Utexas-20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 4:20 EDT Date: Mon 24 Oct 83 03:19:55-CDT From: Werner Uhrig Subject: Query: Small-C compiler V. 2. anyone have it online? To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA would be nice to save the pains of typing it all in. thanks. BTW, I am referring to the code as printed in Dr. Dobb's Journal of Dec 82 and Jan 83. ------- 24-Oct-83 09:39:33-MDT,943;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:39:27-MDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 4:25 EDT Date: 24 October 1983 04:23 EDT From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: BASCOM Patch To: w8sdz@brl cc: Wiedemann.4506i1808@radc-multics, Info-Cpm@brl-vgr In-reply-to: Msg of Fri 21 Oct 83 13:01:05 EDT from Keith Petersen As INFOWORLD said this week: If Van Nostrand charged you $100 for the Science Encyclopedia and then said only one person in your househoud could read it, what would be the likely result? The Constitution forbids monopolies, except under some stringent circumstances to encourage the useful arts. Copyright law certainly won't protect that "one user" nonsense. There is certainly no ethical reason why I should pay police and FBI to prevent two people from using the same book... 24-Oct-83 09:50:25-MDT,1172;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 09:50:19-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 10:17 EDT Received: From Ucb-Vax.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 10:07 EDT Received: by ucbvax.ARPA (4.16/4.11) id AA04933; Mon, 24 Oct 83 06:58:21 pdt Date: Mon, 24 Oct 83 07:06:08 pdt From: jlapsley%D.CC@berkeley Message-Id: <8310241358.AA04933@ucbvax.ARPA> To: k.decvax!wivax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!mts@berkeley, k.info-cpm@brl The BIOS for the Compupro 8/16 system you described sounds like some- thing which I "hear" (by a friend) Gifford & Gifford computers in San Leandro has. Compupro's standard 816 bios will differentiate between 8080 and 8086 software, and allows a larger TPA because all the disk calls are handled under th 8088. However, the standard Godbout BIOS does not include typeahead, interrupt driven I/O, or disk cache-ing. Unfortunately, I also "hear" that Gifford (if that is indeed who supplies it) wants a great deal of money for it, and you may have to buy it along with an entire system. Phil (jlapsley%D.CC@BERKELEY) 24-Oct-83 11:03:26-MDT,871;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 11:03:20-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 11:22 EDT Received: From Bnl.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 11:04 EDT Date: 22-Oct-83 19:19:32-EDT From: jalbers@bnl Subject: Call for Osborne Executive owners To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl Are there any Osborne Executive owners on the net? I am looking for people who are willing to trade all forms of software for this machine. I am willing to trade/give anything I have, which at this point is mostly stuff adapted from the CapOUG library. Jon Albers jalbers@bnl ..philabs!sbcs!bnl!jalbers . 24-Oct-83 11:20:49-MDT,501;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 11:20:45-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 11:22 EDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 11:09 EDT Date: 24 October 1983 10:52 EDT From: Christopher C. Stacy Subject: removal To: INFO-CPM@mit-mc, INFO-MICRO@mit-mc cc: AUTHOR@mit-mc Please remove AUTHOR@MIT-MC from INFO-CPM and INFO-MICRO. thanks, Chris 24-Oct-83 19:26:25-MDT,760;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 24 Oct 83 19:26:19-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 20:48 EDT Received: From Usc-Isid.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 20:47 EDT Date: 24 Oct 1983 07:11-PDT Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid Subject: Re: Query: Small-C compiler V. 2. anyone have it online? From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid To: CMP.WERNER@utexas-20 Cc: info-cpm@brl Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]24-Oct-83 07:11:19.ABN.ISCAMS> In-Reply-To: The message of Mon 24 Oct 83 03:19:55-CDT from Werner Uhrig Isn't Small-C v2 out in the treasure trove at SIMTEL20? (I don't have my DIRLST of that directory handy.) David Kirschbaum 25-Oct-83 08:26:22-MDT,1161;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 25 Oct 83 08:26:10-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 24 Oct 83 21:22 EDT Received: From Mit-Ml.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 24 Oct 83 21:16 EDT Date: 24 October 1983 21:17 EDT From: Herb Lin To: jlapsley%D.CC@ucb-vax cc: k.decvax!wivax!linus!utzoo!utcsrgv!mts@ucb-vax, info-cpm@brl In-reply-to: Msg of Mon 24 Oct 83 07:06:08 pdt from jlapsley%D.CC at berkeley From: jlapsley%D.CC at berkeley The BIOS for the Compupro 8/16 system you described sounds like some- thing which I "hear" (by a friend) Gifford & Gifford computers in San Leandro has. Compupro's standard 816 bios will differentiate between 8080 and 8086 software, and allows a larger TPA because all the disk calls are handled under th 8088. However, the standard Godbout BIOS does not include typeahead, interrupt driven I/O, or disk cache-ing. If you are talking about the G&G MP/M 8-16, it does include disk cache-ing, but it's not user-controllable - it allocates some part of itself for a disk buffer. 25-Oct-83 15:44:18-MDT,483;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 25 Oct 83 15:44:09-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 25 Oct 83 16:53 EDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 25 Oct 83 16:47 EDT Date: Tue 25 Oct 83 13:45:53-PDT From: Steve Vestal Subject: Remove me To: info-cpm@MIT-MC.ARPA PPlease remove VESTAL@WASHINGTON, I get all this stuff through usenet anyway. ------- 25-Oct-83 16:19:52-MDT,1302;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Tue 25 Oct 83 16:19:45-MDT Received: From Hi-Multics.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 25 Oct 83 17:41 EDT Date: 25 October 1983 14:41 pdt From: Bakin.SSID@hi-multics Subject: Olympia People's Machine To: info-cpm@brl-vgr Acknowledge-To: Bakin.SSID at HI-MULTICS I was just received some information on Olympia's machine, the "People". It has: 1 8086 with 5MHz clock. 2 655Kbyte Diskettes. 1 80 x 25 line display (640 x 475 pixels -- bit mapped). 1 Parallel, and 1 Serial (RS232-C) interfaces. 1 91-key keyboard; 12 fn keys, numeric keypad, cursor controls, very non-IBM like (Hurrah) and doesn't look like it is very "ergonomic" at all! (Hurrah Hurrah) 128Kbytes of memory. Options include: 10Mbyte hard disc. Color Monitor. Memory up to .5Mbyte. Two serial and one IEEE 488 interfaces. It runs CP/M-86, CCP/M-86 and MS DOS. Its language is Pascal (MT+?), though a few Low Order Crufts (LOC) like CIS-COBOL, LEVELII COBOL, and CBASIC may be run. How much is it? Sounds neat, is it? Where do I find a Fortran for it? In the LA area, who sells them? Jerry. 26-Oct-83 11:27:42-MDT,1030;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 26 Oct 83 11:27:21-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 26 Oct 83 12:12 EDT Date: Wed, 26 Oct 83 12:07:34 EDT From: Keith Petersen To: Russ Smith cc: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr Subject: Re: Request for help (long msg) This sounds to me like a DCD (Data Carrier Detect) status problem. After the modem has hung up and there is no longer any carrier, DCD goes low (unless you have done something with the status option switches on your Hayes Smartmodem to bypass this). It may be that your Interfacer I/O board is set up so that if it does not have DCD it will not receive characters coming in. Many serial cards do this, ignoring input until some external status line line DSR (Data Set Ready) or DCD (Data Carrier Detect) comes "on". The reason your terminal works direct is that it's probably set up to not require these status signals. --Keith 26-Oct-83 16:39:02-MDT,1241;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 26 Oct 83 16:38:54-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 26 Oct 83 18:14 EDT Received: From Simtel20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 26 Oct 83 18:09 EDT Date: 26 Oct 1983 16:07 MDT (Wed) Message-ID: <[SIMTEL20].WANCHO.26-Oct-83 16:07:42> From: Frank J. Wancho To: INFO-CPM@brl Subject: Bad files in MICRO: I have managed to check those SIG/M volumes against the uploaded versions for all volumes that had either a CRCKLIST, CRCKFILE, or an embedded CRC list in the -CATALOG file. That annotated file is in MICRO:BAD-SIGM.FILES. I was unable to certify volumes 01-04, 07-18, and 51-85 as those disks weren't supplied with CRC lists. However, with the exception of the files listed in the file above, the remaining files at least have CRCs which match the distribution disks. If you have known good copies of the volumes listed, please check it against the CRC list of our uploaded files in MICRO:CRC.EXTRACT, and let me know of any discrepancies. I'll be working on checking MICRO: next while we correct the problems with the SIG/M files. --Frank 26-Oct-83 18:08:06-MDT,1016;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 26 Oct 83 18:08:02-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 26 Oct 83 19:27 EDT Received: From Ucb-Vax.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 26 Oct 83 19:21 EDT Received: from ucbarpa.ARPA by ucbvax.ARPA (4.16/4.11) id AA20657; Wed, 26 Oct 83 16:11:21 pdt Received: by ucbarpa.ARPA (4.16/4.11) id AA01199; Wed, 26 Oct 83 16:20:12 pdt Date: Wed, 26 Oct 83 16:20:12 pdt From: David Allen Gewirtz Message-Id: <8310262320.AA01199@ucbarpa.ARPA> To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl, jalbers@bnl Subject: Re: Call for Osborne Executive owners Be aware that this network is for non-commercial and restricted use only. Using it as a general medium to "trade" software (which implies commercially sold software) is contrary to the purposes and should not occur. Please refrain from this sort of activity in the future or our access to this facility may be severely curtailed. 26-Oct-83 18:53:38-MDT,522;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Wed 26 Oct 83 18:53:34-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 26 Oct 83 20:19 EDT Received: From Mit-Ml.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 26 Oct 83 20:12 EDT Date: 26 October 1983 20:07 edt From: Hess.Unicorn@mit-multics Subject: Lint for Micros To: info-micro@mit-ml cc: info-ibmpc@usc-isib, info-cpm@mit-ml Anybody seen a lint program which runs on MS-DOS, CP/M, or CP/M-86 machines? Tnx, Brian 27-Oct-83 08:24:08-MDT,1386;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 27 Oct 83 08:23:52-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 0:04 EDT Received: From Utexas-20.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 27 Oct 83 0:00 EDT Date: Wed 26 Oct 83 22:59:51-CDT From: John Otken Subject: Help with Siemens FDD100-8 To: info-cpm@BRL.ARPA I am trying to connect two Siemens FDD100-8 floppy disk drives to my CCS 2422 disk controller and seem to be having a strange problem. I can get either drive to work ONLY if it is daisy chained to my Shurgart 801 on my two drive cable. Alone the Siemens don't work, together they don't work, with the 801 they (one at a time) work fine. When used with the 801, they work as either A or B drive and on either position of the cable (with proper termination). When they don't work they just sit there refusing to select or load the head. I have spent considerable time changing this jumper and that jumper and am quite sure I have made no dumb mistakes (like forgetting the terminating resistor pack). I have called CCS and their advice (connect jumpers J and L, H and F) not only doesn't look right but doesn't work either. So, has anyone had much luck configuring FDD100-8s especially with the CCS 2422 disk controller? John Otken CC.Otken@Utexas ------- 27-Oct-83 08:29:43-MDT,739;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 27 Oct 83 08:29:31-MDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 7:05 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Oct 83 6:55:10 EDT From: Charlie Strom (NYU) To: Herb Lin cc: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr Subject: MPM vs. CPM MPM-816 is NOT the same thing as CPM-816; the former is MP/M (multi-user), the latter is CP/M (single user). You are correct that MPM-816 does include a cache for the hard disk (64K) that is automatically flushed every 30 seconds. G&G has invested most of their effort in this product rather than any single user os - a new version of MPM-816 is due out momentarily. 27-Oct-83 11:00:20-MDT,2818;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 27 Oct 83 11:00:11-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 11:55 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 27 Oct 83 11:47 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Oct 83 08:43 PDT From: DGilbert.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Subject: QBAX Program Disappointing To: info-cpm@brl.ARPA cc: DGilbert.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA I purchased the QBAX file backup program from 'AMANUENSIS', Ver. 1.4 fully expecting a good program based on the Microsystems magazine review. FORGET IT! Use the public domain program Archive by Kelly Smith. The problems I found with QBAX are as follows: To provide incremental backup (only those files modified), I assumed that QBAX would use the CPM 'T3' bit in the directory, the so called archive bit. NO! For some reason, QBAX chose to fiddle with byte 'S2' of the directory entry. Why? This byte is defined as the EXTENT NUMBER for extents over 31. Thus to mark a file as 'backed up', the MSB of byte S2 is set. The side effect of this is that some directory programs are hopelessly confused. My system was set up with SD-71. When marked as backed up, a 4K file magically becomes a 132K file. When all files in the directory as backed up, I suddenly have over 4 megabytes of used space on my 482k floppy disk! Another problem with QBAX is its 'flakely'. By this I mean commands are NOT user friendly, with unsymetrical operation. For example. To mark all DOC files on drive B as backed up, type QBAX -BB:*.DOC I had 3 DOC files on the drive, all were marked as backed up as described above. However, to mark all DOC files as unbacked up, I typed QBAX -UB:*.DOC and only 1 of the DOC files were changed! The program may not understand the double density directory structure I'm using. I have 2 logical 16K extents per directory entry. This is perfectly acceptable and standard practice. But some of the early public domain programs were blown away by this, expecting always to find a '0' numbered extent as the first directory entry. These programs were written by persons not fully understanding the CP/M directory structure. The first extent of a long file is always 1 in my case. When marking files as backed up, the QBAX program seems to mark all extents of a long file. But reversing the process, marking the same long file as unbacked up, only the first extent was reset. This really caused problems when trying to fix the directory to eliminate the effects of QBAX. Lastly, an extensively modified BDOS comes with QBAX, so that it knows to mark updated files as needing backup. Archive requires only a simple patch to use the archive bit in the directory. In short, the $30 price tag is a rip off! Doug 27-Oct-83 13:37:50-MDT,1516;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 27 Oct 83 13:37:42-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 14:09 EDT Received: From Bnl.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 27 Oct 83 13:58 EDT Date: 27-Oct-83 13:52:33-EDT From: jalbers@bnl Subject: Reply to:Re: Call for Osborne Executive owners To: dag%ucbarpa@ucb-vax, info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl Date: Wed, 26 Oct 83 16:20:12 pdt From: David Allen Gewirtz Message-Id: <8310262320.AA01199@ucbarpa.ARPA> To: info-cpm@brl, info-micro@brl, jalbers@bnl Subject: Re: Call for Osborne Executive owners Be aware that this network is for non-commercial and restricted use only. Using it as a general medium to "trade" software (which implies commercially sold software) is contrary to the purposes and should not occur. Please refrain from this sort of activity in the future or David, I am well aware of the rules. In no way did I wish to imply that I was going to engage in such activity. When I stated I wanted to trade software, I ment PUBLIC DOMAIN software, of which there are no commercial ties. I am sure you are justly concerned, but I believe the users of this list know what I mean, since I am not the first person who has posted such a message. Jon Albers jalbers@bnl our access to this facility may be severely curtailed. 27-Oct-83 17:34:09-MDT,1389;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 27 Oct 83 17:34:04-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 19:01 EDT Received: From Brl-Vgr.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 27 Oct 83 18:57 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Oct 83 18:38:10 EDT From: Ron Natalie To: jalbers@bnl cc: dag%ucbarpa@ucb-vax, info-micro@brl, info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: Re: Call for Osborne Executive owners As moderator of these lists (INFO-MICRO and INFO-CPM) I do read what goes out on them and when they become contrary to DCA policy I do send a note to the originator privately. I refrain from sending copies to the entire list because I don't feel it is necessary to publically chastise a user for doing something he may not know is wrong. I only intervene on the list when the problem looks as if it may perpetuate itself. If you have any questions about the legallity or proper use of these lists I encourage you to discuss it with the person who originated the traffic and with the appropriate "-REQUEST" address. Please do not send these messages to the entire list. With regard to JALBERS attempting to establish an OSBORNE SIG, I feel that this is exactly the function of these lists and find no fault with it. -Ron Natalie INFO-MICRO-REQUEST@BRL-VGR INFO-CPM-REQUEST@BRL-VGR 27-Oct-83 18:57:27-MDT,794;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Thu 27 Oct 83 18:57:24-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 20:16 EDT Received: From Mit-Ml.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 27 Oct 83 20:14 EDT Date: 27 October 1983 20:16 EDT From: Herb Lin Subject: MPM vs. CPM To: strom@brl-bmd cc: info-cpm@brl In-reply-to: Msg of Thu 27 Oct 83 6:55:10 EDT from Charlie Strom (NYU) tnx for the correction - i made unwarranted assumptions. however, is the shell which allows 8 bit software to be run specifically dependent on MPM? Also, do you know if there is a way to change the size of the disk cache (or to turn off buffering?) Any info on how the new MPM will differ from the old? 28-Oct-83 09:06:49-MDT,955;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 28 Oct 83 09:06:43-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 28 Oct 83 8:29 EDT Received: From Sri-Unix.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 28 Oct 83 8:20 EDT Received: from Usenet.uucp by sri-unix.uucp with rs232; 28 Oct 83 5:15-PDT Date: 23 Oct 83 5:03:26-PDT (Sun) To: info-cpm@brl From: hplabs!hao!seismo!philabs!sbcs!bnl!jalbers@ucb-vax Subject: Osborne Executive owners ...... Article-I.D.: bnl.217 If there are any Osborne Executive owners out there, please contact me. I have some software that I am willing to exchange. Also, does anyone have the Universial Terminal Emulator? I was promised it, but from OCC's condition now, I don't think I will be getting it from them. Jon Albers ...philabs!sbcs!bnl!jalbers 28-Oct-83 09:37:14-MDT,1651;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 28 Oct 83 09:37:07-MDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 21:18 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Oct 83 21:07:57 EDT From: Charlie Strom (NYU) To: DGilbert.ES@parc-maxc.arpa cc: Strom@brl-bmd, INFO-CPM@brl-vgr Subject: Re: QBAX Program Disappointing I don't know where you bought QBAX, but it sounds like either you did not read the manual or you are describing another program completely! QBAX does NOT come with an "extensively modified" BDOS; the vanilla BDOS will work just fine, though a patcher is included which will make a small modification of the BDOS to recognize files that have been backed up in situ, as might result from a random write. This is unusual in that most programs do not use this feature; in fact I have run across a grand total of one. The technique used by the author is in keeping with D.R. rules. The author (an acquaintance) tells me that his method is more robust than that used in ARCHIVE.ASM. There are literaly hundreds of satisfied users of QBAX who run all kinds of public domain software with no trouble whatsoever. I cannot say for sure that SD runs OK with it, but I intend to check. I am somewhat predjudiced, since as I stated, I have spoken to the author and helped him in beta tests before QBAX was released, but we have never met. He is rather upset that you did not see fit to contact him with your problems before attacking his program. I hope to transmit your complaints to him so that he has an opportunity to respond. 28-Oct-83 09:37:16-MDT,1097;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 28 Oct 83 09:37:08-MDT Received: From Brl-Bmd.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 21:29 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Oct 83 21:18:42 EDT From: Charlie Strom (NYU) To: Herb Lin cc: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr Subject: Re: MPM vs. CPM The SW.CMD file, which MPM-816 invokes to run 8 bit applications may run on a non-MP/M system. I am really not sure. The MP/M system I fiddle with is at NYU; I purchased CP/M-816 for use at home (how about that, I didn't even do any pirating!) I don't think that there is a simple way to change the size of the cache that MPM-816 uses. As for the new version, all I know thus far is that there will be a USER.CMD which can be passworded (thank goodness) rather than an intrinsic USER command, and that inter-terminal communication in real time will be supported. I assume there are more substantive changes, but I don't know what they are. The upgrade costs $75 ti registered G&G (NOT COMPUPRO) MPM-816 users. 28-Oct-83 09:37:34-MDT,2878;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Fri 28 Oct 83 09:37:22-MDT Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 27 Oct 83 23:46 EDT Received: From Parc-Maxc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 27 Oct 83 23:44 EDT From: DGILBERT.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Date: 27 Oct 83 20:44:23 PDT Subject: QBAX IS OK - CORRECTION & APOLOGY To: INFO-CPM@BRL.ARPA cc: DGILBERT.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA QBAX REVISITED - I Should have called Amanuensis first!!!!! MY QBAX WORKS FINE. The Author of QBAX called me tonight regarding the problems I was having with the file backup program QBAX with the following result: QBAX is a good program and at $30 is definitely a bargain. QBAX can work as advertised, and I intend to use it in my system, with the advantages it has over the public domain program Archive. I apologize to Amanuensis and the author who called me for my temporary insanity and ignorance. In my own defense, there was a small bug in QBAX which is easily fixed. SO WHY THE CHANGE IN MY OPINION? WHAT HAPPENED????? FILE SIZE PROBLEM: SD-71, the public domain program, incorrectly handles the 'S2' directory bit. Only the lower 4 bits of this byte have any meaning to CP/M. QBAX used the MSB as previously stated. The problem here is mis-information in many CP/M books. In my case, I was misled by 'INSIDE CP/M' by David Cortesi. Using 'S2' has the advantage that CP/M updates it for writes other than a direct random file update. Therefore, most users can live without any BDOS patch at all. The QBAX patch to BDOS is very easy to implement, however. Thus, a fix to SD-71 will correct the file size problem. SMALL BUG: The problem I had with double density directories and commands 'sometimes doing something funny' was traced to a small bug in the program. I was quickly given the 1 byte correction. The correction needed will be sent to all previous purchasers of the program. In all, I will definitely be more responsible in the future with my criticism. Calling the person or company selling the software product when a problem occurs is always the first step. If I had called Amanuensis first, it would have saved my embarrassment and any damage to QBAX's reputation which I hope is minimal. Later, if a company is not responsive, then maybe some criticism is required. The author of QBAX is very concerned about any program problems and will respond to them. My last statement was definitely not called for. I want to encourage more software being sold at reasonable prices. I believe that the selling of excellent programs for less than $50 is commendable and benefits all computer users, and in the long run will benefit the authors of these programs. PLEASE DELIVER MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE TO THE BYTE BUCKET! Doug. 31-Oct-83 07:27:54-MST,8112;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:27:33-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 28 Oct 83 23:15 EDT Date: Fri, 28 Oct 83 23:09:54 EDT From: Bob Bloom (TECOM) To: info-cpm@brl Subject: Review of File Maintenance Utilities I have, at the moment, 7 file maintenance utilites. They're the (hopefully small) utilities used to clean up disks - they can delete, copy, rename, etc. Unfortunately, none does everything I want to do. "SWEEP" comes closest, but is too large. Here's the review: (Comments are welcome.) File Utility Name |CLEANUP| WASH | DISK |TFILER|NSWEEP|VFILER|SWEEP |SDFMU | Version |1/20/80| 1.4 | 1.7c | 1.7 | 1.9 | 2.0 | 3.5 | ?.? | Size (1k blocks) | 1k | 3k | 4k | 6k | 7k | 8k | 27k | ~?k | | | | | | | <12> | | | Display | | | | | | | | | Filename .........| * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | File Size ........| - | - | - | - | * | - | * | * | Attributes .......| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | * | Disk letter ......| - | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | User # ...........| - | - | - | - | * | * | * | * | $SYS Files .......| * | * | * | * | * | * | * | 4 | Alphabetic List ..| - | * | * | * | * | 10 | * | * | | | | | | | | | | Deletion | | | | | | | | | File-by-File .....| * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | Mass Delete ......| - | - | - | * | * | * | * | * | $R/O w/Verify ....| C | C | C | C | C | C | * | * | | | | | | | | | | Copy | | | | | | | | | To Another Disk ..| - | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | To Another User ..| - | - | * | * | * | * | * | * | Auto Verification | - | - | * | * | - | * | - | - | Opt Verification .| - | - | - | - | * | - | * | * | Mass Copy ........| - | - | * | * | * | * | * | * | Overwrite w/Verify| - | * | 7 | * | - | * | - | * | Overwrite $RO w/V | - | C | C | C | C | C | 5 | * | & Rename .........| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | * | Back to Same Dsk .| - | - | - | - | - | - | * | * | With PIP Options .| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | * | Concatinate Files | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | * | Error Full Dsk ...| - | W | W | W | W | W | W | W | | | | | | | | | | Rename | | | | | | | | | File-by-File .....| - | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | Mass Rename ......| - | - | - | - | 1 | - | * | * | Rename R/O w/Ver .| - | C | C | C | C | C | * | * | | | | | | | | | | View | | | | | | | | | Straight listing .| * | * | - | - | - | - | * | - | View by Pages ....| - | - | * | * | * | * | - | * | Output to LST: ...| - | * | * | * | * | * | - | - | Ouptut to PUN: ...| - | * | * | - | - | - | - | - | | | | | | | | | | Menu on Start-up ....| * | * | * | - | * | - | * | - | Menu on Demand ......| - | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | Screen Oriented .....| - | - | - | - | - | * | - | * | Line Oriented .......| * | * | * | * | * | - | * | * | | | | | | | | | | Tagging | | | | | | | | | Tag/untag files ..| - | - | * | * | * | * | * | * | Retag files ......| - | - | - | - | * | - | * | * | Mass tag/untag ...| - | - | - | - | - | * | - | - | Copied tag .......| - | - | - | - | * | - | * | * | | | | | | | | | | Switch Disks ........| - | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | Switch User # .......| - | - | * | * | * | * | * | * | View all User #'s ...| - | - | - | - | 6 | - | * | * | View file subset ....| * | * | * | - | 6 | - | * | * | Start on alt Dsk ....| * | * | * | - | * | * | * | * | Start on alt Usr ....| - | - | - | - | - | * | * | * | | | | | | | | | | Movement | | | | | | | | | Forward .........| * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | Backward .........| - | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | Sideways .........| - | - | - | - | - | 2 | - | 2 | Multiple Screens .| - | - | - | - | - | * | - | * | Goto File ........| - | - | - | * | - | * | * | - | Jump .............| - | - | * | * | - | - | - | - | | | | | | | | | | Free Space | | | | | | | | | On Dsk on Entry ..| - | - | * | * | * | - | * | * | On other Dsks ....| - | - | * | * | * | * | * | * | | | | | | | | | | File size on Demand .| - | - | * | * | 3 | * | 3 | 3 | Tagged files size ...| - | - | * | * | * | 9 | 8 | 8 | # Files Selected ....| - | - | - | - | * | - | * | * | | | | | | | | | | Change Attributes ...| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | * | Squeeze/Unsqueeze ...| - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | | | | | | | | | | Warm Boot Exit ......| - | * | - | - | - | - | * | - | Quick non-boot Exit .| * | - | * | * | * | 11 | - | * | * - Has this attribute - - Doesn't have this C - Crashes with $R/O error if you try this W - Error is trapped, gives warning Notes: 1. On Menu, not currently working 2. Cursor keys active (^,v,<,>) 3. File size shown as part of listing 4. Hide/Show system files on demand 5. Warning Given, no Crash 6. Only on initial entry 7. No warning if mass copy 8. Both in current block size and 1k block size 9. Shown only during a tag operation 10. Sort by filename OR filetype 11. User choice of exit 12. Vfiler also contains other attributes in ZCPR environment SDFMU is "Super-Duper File Maintenance Utility" - it does not exist but is my combination of best features of all of them. Corrections or reviews of other programs are welcome. Anybody care to write "SDFM"? -Bob Bloom 31-Oct-83 07:28:02-MST,494;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:27:59-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 28 Oct 83 23:16 EDT Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 28 Oct 83 23:13 EDT Date: 28 Oct 1983 19:55:20-PDT From: CCVAX.trest@nosc To: INFO-CPM@mit-mc Please Add Me to your List. THANKS!! trest@nosc trest@nosc-tecr Mike Trest 4065 Hancock Street San Diego, Ca 92110 (619)225-1980 31-Oct-83 07:28:48-MST,689;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:28:44-MST Received: From Usc-Isid.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 29 Oct 83 10:02 EDT Date: 28 Oct 1983 23:16-PDT Sender: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid Subject: Bob Bloom's Review of File Maintenance Utilities From: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid To: INFO-CPM@brl-vgr Message-ID: <[USC-ISID]28-Oct-83 23:16:50.ABN.ISCAMS> Friends in NetLand: Be sure to catch, ask for, whatever -- Bob Bloom's tremendous in-depth message/study on file maintenance utilities. What a nice job! My compliments, sir, and my thanks for an excellent piece of reference work. David Kirschbaum Toad Hall 31-Oct-83 07:28:58-MST,872;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:28:55-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 29 Oct 83 17:12 EDT Date: Sat, 29 Oct 83 17:10:28 EDT From: Keith Petersen To: DGilbert.ES@parc-maxc cc: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr Subject: Re: QBAX Program Disappointing It is my understanding that the CP/M "S2 byte" (extended extent byte) actually uses only the lower nibble for the extended extent information (this from Bruce Ratoff, a person I consider an expert on CP/M 2.2). If this is so, the high-order bit being used by QBAX should cause no problems unless the directory programs (SD71 in particular) are incorrectly written to look at the whole byte instead of just the lower nibble. I consider this to be a fault in SD71, not QBAX. --Keith 31-Oct-83 07:29:07-MST,855;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:29:03-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 29 Oct 83 23:13 EDT Received: From Nosc-Cc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 29 Oct 83 23:11 EDT Date: 29 Oct 1983 20:02:25-PDT From: Ty Wernet Reply-to: CCVAX.ty@nosc To: DGilbert.ES@parc-maxc, info-cpm@brl.ARPA Subject: Re: QBAX Program Disappointing Cc: DGilbert.ES@PARC-MAXC.ARPA Where does one find the backup implementation done by Kelley Smith. We have had similiar experiences with QBAX. Also if you have implemented the PUBLIC patch and are trying to do an "incremental" backup it is always finding backed up files in user 0 to try and backup them again.. Thanks in advance for the Direction towards Kelley Smith's implementation. ty@nosc 31-Oct-83 07:31:19-MST,1158;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:31:15-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 10:42 EST Date: Sun, 30 Oct 83 10:34:28 EST From: Bob Bloom (TECOM) To: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid cc: info-cpm@brl Subject: My File Maintenance Utilities Review Thanks for the kudos, but ... What I'm really looking for is corrections/additions to the reveiw. If you have a favorite of your own, public domain or otherwise, send it to me and I'll re-summarize. (You can do wonderful things with WordStar's column mode!) And additional notes I've just learned: "WASH" might not be public domain, all the others are. Anybody really know? And VFILER been revised and the version reviewed was not extensively tested in a plain CP/M environment (I use ZCPR2). It's neat if you run ZCPR, some wasted capability if you don't. (Did I get it right Rich?) I'll be out a week (hope I can stand the computer withdrawal symtoms) will report on the answers I get after Nov 5. bob bloom (unix "habbit" - all lower case) 31-Oct-83 07:33:01-MST,1529;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:32:56-MST Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 19:07 EST Date: 30 October 1983 19:06 EDT From: Keith Petersen Subject: Digital Research RMAC modification To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr This is forwarded from my RCPM. It came from Sigi Kluger. --- El Paso, TX, 10/18/83 When I wrote LDIR a few hours ago, I realized that RMAC was unable to handle the job, since it would wipe out DOLLAR-SIGNS in labels. Some SYSLIB routines, however, use them in external references... EXTRN F$OPEN in RMAC is synonymous to EXTRN FOPEN and LINK would complain about the missing symbol FOPEN! Now, there just HADT TO BE a better way than M80, and after a lot of DU'ing and DDT'ing, I found it! In RMAC ver 1.1 you find the following code starting at address 1D76: L1D76: CPI '$' RNZ XRA A MOV M,A RET Now, to be able to use RMAC instead of M80 for *ALL* your SYSLIB work, make a NOP out of the MOV M,A instruction! Remember, the address is only good for my version of RMAC, as supplied with an early version of CP/M plus. Your RMAC may be a bit different, but the code should be in the general area. With the availability of CP/M plus, more people will probably use RMAC than M80, and this easy patch (which seems to have NO ILL EFFECTS) allows use of SYSLIB with RMAC. My recommendation: reformat SYSLIB into an IRL file for faster searching. 31-Oct-83 07:33:11-MST,1198;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:33:06-MST Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 19:07 EST Date: 30 October 1983 19:08 EDT From: Keith Petersen Subject: Digital Research LINK modification To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr This is forwarded from my RCPM. It came from Sigi Kluger. --- El Paso TX 10-29-83 How often have you inadvertently struck a key while Digital Research's LINK was linking a file? If you've ever done it (especially where you had to type a long command line or the linking took a while) you know how frustrating it is when LINK aborts. It is a mystery to me why DRI would allow LINK to abort on ANY keyboard entry. Fortunately, the changes to prevent that are trivial. Simply use your favorite debugger, load LINK.COM and change location 368B from 0E to AF and 368C from 0B to C9. This causes the console status routine to always return "console not ready." NOTE: platch is valid for LINK ver 1.31 only. The code to be changed is from 0E 0B C3 05 00 (MVI C,0B ! JMP BDOS) to AF C9 .. .. .. (XRA A ! RET) and can be found using DDTF or DU. 31-Oct-83 07:33:25-MST,2396;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:33:18-MST Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 19:15 EST Date: 30 October 1983 19:15 EDT From: Keith Petersen Subject: Extracting specific area codes from PAMS list To: Info-Cpm@brl-vgr, Info-Micro@brl-vgr Bill Blue's "PAMS" list of all known public access message and file transfer systems is very useful, but I have had several requests recently for a way to extract specific area code entries. I don't normally send source code via netmail, but since this is short and quite a few people wanted it, I make an exception. It's a good study in how to use Microsoft Basic to scan an ASCII file for any specific string and write out these lines to an output file. --- 10 REM PAMSAREA.BAS ver. 1.0, 9/8/83 20 REM by James Petersen, WD8CLE and Keith Petersen, W8SDZ 30 REM This program is for use with OTHERSYS (Bill Blue's PAMS list) 40 REM to make an output file which contains the phone numbers of 50 REM only a single area code. It was used to make AREA-313.BBS 60 REM on this system. Written for Microsoft Basic-80 ver. 5.x 70 OPEN "I",1,"OTHERSYS.SEP":REM Put input filename here 80 OPEN "O",2,"AREA-313.BBS":REM Put your area code in place of 313 90 PRINT #2," Extracted from Bill Blue's latest PAMS list" 100 PRINT #2,"" 110 WHILE NOT EOF(1) 120 LINE INPUT #1,A$ 130 L=INSTR(1,A$,"(313)"):REM Put your area code in place of 313 140 IF L<>0 THEN PRINT #2,A$ 150 WEND 160 PRINT #2,"" 170 PRINT #2," * denotes 24-hour operation" 180 PRINT #2," + denotes 8-12 hour DAYTIME operation ONLY" 190 PRINT #2," - denotes 8-12 hour NIGHTTIME operation ONLY" 200 PRINT #2," ! new system or new number to existing system" 210 PRINT #2," $ Supports VADIC 1200 baud operation" 220 PRINT #2," & Supports 212A 1200 baud operation" 230 PRINT #2," % Supports BAUDOT operation" 240 PRINT #2," #1 denotes original system of that type" 250 PRINT #2," dd. denotes game oriented messages" 260 PRINT #2," dl. download/program exchange system" 270 PRINT #2," ml. mail/information exchange only" 280 PRINT #2," rb. denotes call, let ring once and call back" 290 PRINT #2," rl. religious orientation" 300 CLOSE:END 31-Oct-83 07:34:02-MST,515;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:33:59-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 20:24 EST Date: Sun, 30 Oct 83 20:15:07 EST From: Rick Conn To: Bob Bloom (TECOM) cc: info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: Review of File Maintenance Utilities Hi, Bob, I really like your list. Certainly looks comprehensive. Does anyone have anything else to add? Rick 31-Oct-83 07:34:11-MST,1122;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:34:07-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 20:25 EST Date: Sun, 30 Oct 83 20:24:04 EST From: Rick Conn To: Bob Bloom (TECOM) cc: ABN.ISCAMS@usc-isid, info-cpm@brl Subject: Re: My File Maintenance Utilities Review Bob, VFILER 2.0 is the current version. It is soon to be revised, tho. As a side note, ALL of the ZCPR2 utilities are about to be reviewed and (quite probably) revised, as well as the ZCPR2 System in general. Version 1.0 of the ZCPR2 System is currently scheduled for release in April 84. I don't anticipate any preliminary releases of its utilities until then, tho, because of confusion and other problems it could cause. I have viewed Mod 0.3 of ZCPR2 (and the ZCPR2 System) to be a useful ED Model, and am viewing Version 1.0 of ZCPR2 (and the ZCPR2 System) as a production model (with some new ED features added). More detail later as bits and pieces become operational. Rick 31-Oct-83 07:34:33-MST,931;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:34:29-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 30 Oct 83 23:13 EST Received: From Usc-Eclb.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 30 Oct 83 23:10 EST Date: 30 October 1983 20:05-PST (Sunday) Sender: TLI@usc-eclb From: Tony Li To: Info-Cpm@brl Subject: Archive Bits... Reply-to: Tli@usc-eclb Home: 1275 W. 29th #211, Los Angeles, Ca. 90007 (213) 737-8168 Is the S2 byte (in CP/M 2.2) the same as the T3 bit (CCP/M)? If not, then you'll probably have problems when your archiving programs get ported to subsequent DRI OS's. In my CCP/M Programmer's Reference guide, the T3 bit set indicates that the file has been archived. This is the high-order bit of the third byte of the filetype. This is also the high-order bit of the 12th byte in the FCB. Cheers, Tony ;-) 31-Oct-83 07:35:09-MST,612;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 07:35:05-MST Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 31 Oct 83 0:26 EST Date: Mon 31 Oct 83 00:17:22-EST From: Mark Becker Subject: Digital Research's MAC patch? To: info-cpm@BRL-VGR.ARPA This request for info comes right after seeing the dollarsign patch note for RMAC..... 1. Has anyone seen a patch for MAC 2.0 that preserves lowercase in the .PRN file? 2. Ditto #1 for dollarsigns. Thanks in advance - Mark Becker ------- 31-Oct-83 10:07:51-MST,435;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from BRL-VGR by SIMTEL20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 31 Oct 83 10:07:47-MST Received: From brl-gateway2.ARPA by BRL-VGR via smtp; 31 Oct 83 11:33 EST Received: From Mit-Mc.ARPA by BRL via smtp; 31 Oct 83 11:23 EST Date: 31 October 1983 1118-est From: Tom Davenport Subject: Please add me to the list. To: Info-CPM@mit-mc Thanks!